how much do you actually enjoy poker?

[CharlieDontSurf]

I actually basically decided over the weekend that I'm pretty much done with online poker. A major part of it is the massive hassle it has become to get money on and off sites...but also to be honest I think I've always found online poker pretty boring. I'm an average NL cash player...mainly play 25NL/50NL/100NL occasionally for small spending cash and overall I'm probably a slight winner like $4000-$5000 total. MTT's can be fun so I may play an occasional $500 or $1000 buy-in on Stars(sat'ing in of course)...but short of that I'm done.

I still have several industry/work related home games I get invites to so I'll use those to quench my occasional poker/gambling thirst. Its been a interesting three years since I first discovered online play...if poker ever becomes legit and back to post Frist days(mainly in terms of convience) I may come back.

I really miss pinnacle though just as much as Party. [censored] u Frist

[AJackson]

You assert that your friends are losing because their mindset is such that they would take the deal. Obviously someone's mindset effects how one plays, but I think it's a stretch to claim that the difference between winning and losing is reflected in their willingness to accept the deal. I think being willing to accept this deal is just one of many factors.

You're offering a pretty good deal here. We get a lifetime paycheck based upon past earnings and are freed up to do whatever we want. Ask people of any occupation if they would be willing to retire tomorrow at full pay if only they agree to never do the same job again. Just like here, you wouldn't get many negative responses, I imagine.

To me it would be a simple utilitarian calculation. Is my enjoyment of poker and potential increase in future poker earnings greater than a guaranteed lifetime income with zero time responsibilities and zero risk?

I would take the deal and it's not close.

Your response to others who came to same conclusion was to ask them why they were working a dead end job.

I don't see it that way at all. I enjoy poker. When I'm not playing (and I play a ton), I think about it all the time. I love the challenge, I love the money, I love the freedom and I love the validation. I'm not so happy with poker when I'm on a 18 buyin downswing like I'm on right now.

I also believe I could find all these benefits in other fields. Why not take the easy money and use my freedom to find what else I enjoy? I'll likely end up as satisfied as I am with poker and much better off financially due to this awesome deal. Frankly, I question the gambling sense of most anyone who wouldn't take this deal. They would either have to believe they have large future increases in earnings or not have a proven track record.

The primary error I see in you logic is how you define enjoy. It seems that in your view enjoyment as something like how TJ Cloutier loves craps. Is it really that strict? I should find what I do so fulfilling that it's like I'm addicted to it?

Doesn't seem reasonable to me.

[MicroBob]

Good points.
There are lots of things I enjoy that I don't want to do all the time.
There are lots of these things I enjoy that I would accept a reasonable amount of money to stop doing for the rest of my life and not feel like I was missing out on anything.

With poker, I would feel I was missing out on it a little bit of course.
But I would survive.
And I would have so much more free-time for travel and other fun stuff I think my life would be far more fulfilling than it is now having to sit around and click buttons for several hours a week (whether I get some amount of enjoyment out of my button-clicking or not).

I still enjoy playing generally even though it's kind of boring sometimes. And mostly I find it's a pretty relaxing way to make a living.
But that doesn't mean in the least that I can't find a way to live without it.

I know absolutely I'm not addicted to it and wouldn't feel like I'm missing THAT much if I didn't have it.
This is not a bad thing.

[diamonddawg]

to me, poker is my "national enquirer" meets "ok!" with some of the sob stories from "people" and a bit of the etiquette pages of "mens health" tossed in. it's my fav spectator sport that i never, ever armchair 1/4 back as anyone could beat me and i am totally ok with that as i know who is the best.

[adios]

[ QUOTE ]
a couple of friends of mine have been on serious losing streaks recently and i asked them, if given the choice to never play poker again but just receive a check each month based on their historical win rate would they take it? both said yes. i told them both that that is the reason they are losing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I understand your point. After the UIGEA law was passed I abaondoned online poker for many reasons. I've tried going and playing live again but my heart isn't in it at this point. Haven't done all that well (minor losses though) and it got me thinking about why I haven't done that well. I realized that I don't really want to be at the casino. It's not because I'm disgruntled about the situation with online poker, it's that I really don't enjoy the atmosphere in the casino or the people for that matter. I just prefer being other places. I've also gotten to the point where I don't really want to do much grinding. At least I've realized fairly quickly that I need alot better attitude than what I have now if I'm going to keep on, keeping on at poker. Definitely have to have something to motivate me to play besides money. Poker's a great, challenging endeavor, always will be for more reasons than winning money. I'm currently taking a good introspective view of the reasons I think poker is a great game and try to use those reasons to direct my future activities. I like the idea of playing mostly tournaments. They're finite, it's IMO the antithesis of being in a grind mode, and making a big score is exciting. On the other hand they're not referred to as donkaments without reason. Tournaments at the local casino are in many ways a crap shoot and after playing tournaments online the ones at the local casinos aren't acceptable to me in reality. So I'm thinking about going back online and playing tournaments. Before I go back to playing in cash games live, I'm going to have to do some serious work on my attitude which I'm working on. I guess the bottom line is that for me attitude about playing is vital for my success.

[PokerBob]

I have been 'pro' for two years now and have gotten to the point where I rarely enjoy playing online any more. I still greatly enjoy live poker most of the time, but much of that depends on who is in the game, as I enjoy the social interaction.

[fnord_too]

[ QUOTE ]
a couple of friends of mine have been on serious losing streaks recently and i asked them, if given the choice to never play poker again but just receive a check each month based on their historical win rate would they take it? both said yes. i told them both that that is the reason they are losing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't read the replies, but the only valid logic I can see here is if you are saying that this would be a bad time to take that offer since their win rates are probably artificially low due to the recent down swing. Even then I think it is a great offer if that is the only time it is offered since you not only remove variance, which has a very real cost, but also recover all the opportunity costs you spend (by taking time in) playing the game in the first place. I would argue that unless one had a realistic expectation of increasing their rate dramatically in the near future, passing up a (one time) deal like this would be indicative of someone who either did not understand expectation, variance, and opportunity costs or someone who let their passions get in the way of a good business decision. Neither of these is particularly good traits for a poker player to display. Even if you love the game, there are plenty of other rich games out there to sooth the loss.


Edit - I have skimmed the first 50 or so replies. I love poker, I love just about anything that is intellectually stimulating. How I would describe someone who loved poker to the point that they could not conceive some other use of the time equally rewarding (money aside, since that what you are really getting at here) is someone with very little experience or in a horrible rut. More than likely it is the latter. People hate change and pine for nostalgia, but really, anyone with the intellect and temperament to beat poker over the long haul should be able to find plenty of things they can be just as passionate about and derive as much satisfaction from. If you are at the very pinnacle of poker players, and derive your satisfaction from being the best in the world, then I could see the argument: it is unlikely that you could be among the very best at something else, so you probably could not reclaim that prestige in other pursuits. There are very few people who fit into that category, though, and most people who are very good at poker can achieve similar success in other endeavors (that are stimulating and satisfying).

[greg nice]

wow this forum is filled with idiots. im surprised limon even takes the time to post and respond in here

[Budget Boy]

I stopped reading this thread after a few pages, but here is my opinion. I've played about 5000 hours of live poker over the past four years. I loved the game when I first started and still do. No way would I take a check for my yearly earnings without having to play. I can honestly say I would turn down a check for 120% of my earnings if it meant I couldn't play that year. I look forward to every session I play, I am always trying to become a better player, trying to identify mistakes, improve my winrate, and strive to move up to the next level. I really enjoy the atmosphere in the cardroom and its a big part of my social life. I play about 25 hours a week and it never feels like work to me. I spend a lot of time away from the table reading, lurking here, and thinking about the game. I have aspirations to gradually move up and beat bigger and bigger games and that motivates me.

[wpr101]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i absolutely love poker when i'm running good and destroying everyone, and i hate it more than anything when i'm running bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

I 100% agree with this.

If someone offered me what I thought was a resonable sum compared to how much I could potentially earn over my lifetime I would happily take it.