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#111
04-24-2007, 04:18 PM
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Re: Hero Professor In Hell Right Now
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Trading in a vague, possibly relativistic conception of justice for an absolutism that runs totally counter to my innate sense of justice doesn't seem like that sweet a trade to me. [/ QUOTE ] If justice is determined only by your "innate" sense of justice then justice is no more significant than your preference for chocolate over vanilla. Maybe that's the case. Which would mean Hitler can prefer vanilla and slaughtering Jews and not be unjust. [/ QUOTE ] Sort of. So what? 
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#114
04-24-2007, 05:23 PM
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Re: Hero Professor In Hell Right Now
[ QUOTE ]
Well, it would be strong evidence that person is morally depraved. What's your point? [/ QUOTE ] If morality is determined the same way as one's preference for ice cream it's nonsensical to call someone morally depraved. The statement communicates nothing more significant than "I like chocolate and hate vanilla".
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#115
04-24-2007, 05:28 PM
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Re: Hero Professor In Hell Right Now
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] So what? [/ QUOTE ] At this point there's really nothing left to discuss. [/ QUOTE ] Really? The idea that Hitler considered his actions just is earth-shattering for you? What it really boils down to is that, in my paradigm, Hitler is allowed to think his actions are just, and we are allowed to disagree. That neither of us is 'absolutely' correct makes no difference. In your paradigm, Hitler's actions might actually BE absolutely just. In practice, there is no difference in how the world will be, regardless of which paradigm we accept. For some reason, you take more solace in yours, but more importantly, you posit yours for no good reason. You may be right, Hitler's actions may actually be just, but I don't think they are.
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#116
04-24-2007, 05:29 PM
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Re: Hero Professor In Hell Right Now
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Well, it would be strong evidence that person is morally depraved. What's your point? [/ QUOTE ] If morality is determined the same way as one's preference for ice cream it's nonsensical to call someone morally depraved. The statement communicates nothing more significant than "I like chocolate and hate vanilla". [/ QUOTE ] This is definitely wrong. Conveys nothing more? You just feel like asserting that? Just because two things are based on individual and innate preferences does not mean they are equivalent.
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#117
04-24-2007, 05:36 PM
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Re: Hero Professor In Hell Right Now
[ QUOTE ]
Really? The idea that Hitler considered his actions just is earth-shattering for you? [/ QUOTE ] I read your post as saying that Hitler was not unjust, and so what?
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#118
04-24-2007, 05:38 PM
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Re: Hero Professor In Hell Right Now
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Really? The idea that Hitler considered his actions just is earth-shattering for you? [/ QUOTE ] I read your post as saying that Hitler was not unjust, and so what? [/ QUOTE ] Hitler didn't think his actions were unjust. So what? I edited my response right as you were responding, though, to add more to it.
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#119
04-24-2007, 05:48 PM
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Re: Hero Professor In Hell Right Now
[ QUOTE ]
In your paradigm, Hitler's actions might actually BE absolutely just. [/ QUOTE ] How so? [ QUOTE ] In practice, there is no difference in how the world will be, regardless of which paradigm we accept. [/ QUOTE ] I think this is way, way wrong. I think what we believe matters and has a huge impact on history. Had there been fewer moral relativists in Germany perhaps Hitler would never have come to power. [ QUOTE ] Hitler's actions may actually be just, but I don't think they are. [/ QUOTE ] Once again you have no basis for thinking that beyond your own tastes.
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#120
04-24-2007, 05:58 PM
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Re: Hero Professor In Hell Right Now
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] In your paradigm, Hitler's actions might actually BE absolutely just. [/ QUOTE ] How so? [ QUOTE ] In practice, there is no difference in how the world will be, regardless of which paradigm we accept. [/ QUOTE ] I think this is way, way wrong. I think what we believe matters and has a huge impact on history. Had there been fewer moral relativists in Germany perhaps Hitler would never have come to power. [ QUOTE ] Hitler's actions may actually be just, but I don't think they are. [/ QUOTE ] Once again you have no basis for thinking that beyond your own tastes. [/ QUOTE ] Because you can't make any arguments for YOUR absolute morality, only absolute morality as a concept. Clearly, YOUR absolute morality is just an arbitrary guess (and based on your own personal proclivities, I would argue, which makes it ironic). So, if absolute morality exists, it is JUST AS LIKELY that Hitler was behaving perfectly as incorrectly. You don't really think the Christian version of absolute morality is privileged, do you? As for the practicality point, moral relativists probably had little to do with it. He had the power. Most humans, the world over, have nearly identical moral systems. Therefore, we tend to find the same things wrong. I don't need to be able to say that the guy stealing my stereo is behaving absolutely immorally in order to stop him, I simply need to live in a society that agrees with my own morality (hint: all of them). There are obviously outliers, individuals whose sense of justice and morality are different than normal. We call them sociopaths, psycopaths, [censored], and so on. But again, it wasn't necessary to call him absolutely wrong in order to stop him...simply realizing we didn't like what he was doing was enough.
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