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#111
08-19-2005, 02:01 PM
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Re: 50/100 hand against mahatma at UB
Just very quickly, also from last night:
Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $100 BB (2 handed) converter SwiftRaisE ($10899.50) BB :#A500AF(Mahatma)/ ($37265.50) Preflop: SwiftRaisE is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. <font color="#CC3333">SwiftRaisE raises to $300</font>, BB :#A500AF(Mahatma)/ calls $200. Flop: ($600) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> Mahatma checks, <font color="#CC3333">SwiftRaisE bets $500</font>, Mahatma calls $500. Turn: ($1600) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> Mahatma checks, SwiftRaisE checks. River: ($1600) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">Mahatma bets $4300</font>, SwiftRaisE calls $4300. Final Pot: $10200 Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF"> SwiftRaisE has Ac Jc (one pair, aces). Mahatma has 8s 7c (one pair, sevens). Outcome: SwiftRaisE wins $10200. </font> 
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#112
08-19-2005, 02:19 PM
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Re: 50/100 hand against mahatma at UB
you can't just say it "felt" like one of his bluffs and then go with that. mahatma actually does try to put his opponents on hands and you should too. your first post saying "you have top two, you should call" essentially doesn't make any sense, it isn't high level poker, and we've already gone over the reasons why that's the case. i put him on a bluff in this situation much much less often than you seem to, and no i don't play the 50-100 but yes i have put in many hours watching the game because i hope to be playing it soon.
el d, sure i think sometimes a call can mean any 2 trying to take it away but i REALLY don't think he does it on this dry a board from out of position.
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#113
08-19-2005, 02:23 PM
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Re: 50/100 hand against mahatma at UB
[ QUOTE ]
Do you think Mahatma is not clever enough to be aware of this kind of rather simple 2nd level thinking? Don't you think that he should actually be bluffing here quite often and will be VERY correct to do so? [/ QUOTE ] I addressed that logic in my own post and I think while it's possible, we're just thinking on too many levels here. Because so many people play against him and think "whoa crazy lag i'm calling with top two" while it may be a profitable spot for a bluff if he thinks hero will lay down top two or ::gasp:: a set, he really has no reason to think hero will lay it down often enough for this to be profitable. furthermore if he had total air, he would have to give hero credit for AK and NOT a set and then HOPE that his 8 outer that he doesn't even have gets there before HOPING that hero will fold... seems like a silly time to make a move like that, to me.
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#114
08-19-2005, 02:24 PM
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Re: 50/100 hand against mahatma at UB
[ QUOTE ]
Hands that look like this where Mahatma has been bluffing on the river have been posted many times. [/ QUOTE ] TY. This thread is pointless. If Mahatma often bluff pushes this situation on a similar board where hero clearly has a hand, then it's an easy call with top two. End of discussion. edit: to TWP, the example you posted is completely different. No turn action, it wasn't a push, different texture, completely different feel. This actually looks like a bluff [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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#115
08-19-2005, 02:47 PM
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Re: 50/100 hand against mahatma at UB
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Do you think Mahatma is not clever enough to be aware of this kind of rather simple 2nd level thinking? Don't you think that he should actually be bluffing here quite often and will be VERY correct to do so? [/ QUOTE ] I addressed that logic in my own post and I think while it's possible, we're just thinking on too many levels here. Because so many people play against him and think "whoa crazy lag i'm calling with top two" while it may be a profitable spot for a bluff if he thinks hero will lay down top two or ::gasp:: a set, he really has no reason to think hero will lay it down often enough for this to be profitable. furthermore if he had total air, he would have to give hero credit for AK and NOT a set and then HOPE that his 8 outer that he doesn't even have gets there before HOPING that hero will fold... seems like a silly time to make a move like that, to me. [/ QUOTE ] The primary mistake in your analysis throughout this thread is putting Hero on a hand as strong as AK.
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#116
08-19-2005, 03:01 PM
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Re: 50/100 hand against mahatma at UB
[ QUOTE ]
Do you actually believe than when a player like Mahatma pushes against you here (yes, on this very particular board and the exact action) for $15K into a $5k pot, you should simply make a VERY EASY FOLD? [/ QUOTE ] I would like to notice that he didnt overbet pot by much cause Hero's stack was much shorter. So actually it was 1.2xpot if remember correctly
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#117
08-19-2005, 03:59 PM
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Re: 50/100 hand against mahatma at UB
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Hands that look like this where Mahatma has been bluffing on the river have been posted many times. [/ QUOTE ] TY. This thread is pointless. If Mahatma often bluff pushes this situation on a similar board where hero clearly has a hand, then it's an easy call with top two. End of discussion [/ QUOTE ] You still don't get it. Even when you consider what El Diablo had told you, this could still be just a "close call", or a call-with-a-certain-frequency, or a fold-at-certain-table-dynamics. That's why this thread is far from being pointless (from a theoretic perspective) even if you have some clear evidence that Mahatma can very well bluff at such a spot. Your binary attempts to interpret this situation are very superficial. Also, when you say "hero clearly has a hand" you demonstrate, again, some very unimaginative thinking.
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#118
08-19-2005, 04:47 PM
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Re: 50/100 hand against mahatma at UB
Of course mahatma can bluff at such a spot. I'm not an idiot.
The question is whether, as an intelligent lag, he would choose do it in this spot, on this board, the way it played out. He has to put villain on a hand here. Seems like a dumb spot to push in with nothing, and he doesn't seem like a stupid player. From what I've seen he picks his spots. Plus, it seems like a great spot to push in a set/straight. This looks like a value bet to me. Which is why I asked for hand histories where he has done this...I've never seen them, but I don't read every thread. If he's done this many times in this situation (and the texture of the board and previous streets is incredibly important here), it means he's capable of and more importantly likely to do such a move, and it's an easy call because of the strength of your hand. WTF is wrong with that? Are you hero or something? You're really going for the jugular today. EDIT: P.S. If you were mahatma, WTF would you put the Hero on? With what frequency? Show me your 'imaginative thinking'.
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