Hero Professor In Hell Right Now

[revots33]

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P.S. - how come only you, me and jogger get this?

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Your points about the futility of a world without God seem reasonable to me

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Can someone please explain to me why the world is futile without god? I'm seriously not getting it.

As for the "grave injustice" of the professor rotting in the ground just like Hitler... so what? Evil is often not punished and good is often not rewarded in life. Why should it be in death? Seems like human wish-fulfillment more than an argument for god.

[gumpzilla]

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This is like saying you might as well not argue with NAMBLA that having sex with little boys is not OK, after all, they're entitled to their views, right?

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You are straining here. For one thing, a major difference is that presumably they are actually having sex with little boys, out there in the real world. Thus, their opinions and actions have actual relevance to the situation, in that they can act on their advocacy. Somebody thinking you're going to Hell can't actually affect whether or not you're going there, even if it does exist, which it almost certainly doesn't. So I don't view the two as being equivalent in the slightest. A much better comparison would be a belief that all casters of magic should be drawn and quartered.

I really dislike how pissy people get about religion. I'm all for trying to keep it out of government, and I think that's a fight worth fighting. But at the level of arguments like this (except possibly within a family) it just seems dumb to me. People tripping over themselves to display their perceived intellectual and moral superiority usually seems distasteful.

[NotReady]

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Trading in a vague, possibly relativistic conception of justice for an absolutism that runs totally counter to my innate sense of justice doesn't seem like that sweet a trade to me.


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If justice is determined only by your "innate" sense of justice then justice is no more significant than your preference for chocolate over vanilla. Maybe that's the case. Which would mean Hitler can prefer vanilla and slaughtering Jews and not be unjust.

[chezlaw]

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P.S. - how come only you, me and jogger get this?

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Your points about the futility of a world without God seem reasonable to me

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Can someone please explain to me why the world is futile without god? I'm seriously not getting it.



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perhaps this wil help;

2+2 book: here we should raise with Aces
nearly everyone: Wise words indeed
Notready: Unless god exists it makes no difference
nearly everyone: of course it does
Notready: oh no it doesn't
Everyone else: oh yes it does
Peter666: his behind you
nearly everyone: oh yes it does
Notready: oh no it doesn't
...


Eventually it dawns on the world that Notready means that ultimately it makes no difference which of course we all agreed with anyway, wasn't what we were talking about, and has no consequences.

chez

[chezlaw]

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And btw chez, I must disagree with you, me “being nice” is indeed an effect of my Christianity.

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[img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] can tell us what nastyness you would perpetrate if you woke up tomorrow not believing in god?

or do you mean your natural nastyness has been corrupted by exposure to christianity and now you can't stop yourself being nice even though you really want to be nasty?

chez

[bluesbassman]

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Of course it would be a gross injustice if this guy somehow bought an express ticket to Hell... but of course, the outcome you actually believe in, viz. that he is currently lying (briefly) in state and will shortly begin rotting in the ground, is also absurdly unjust.



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Incorrect. There was an injustice perpetrated by the killer. Otherwise, since there is no supernatural moral agent involved, that a person simply ceases to exist upon death is, from an atheistic point of view, neither just nor unjust. Only the theist needs to explain the immoral actions of his god.

[NotReady]

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perhaps this wil help;

2+2 book: here we should raise with Aces
nearly everyone: Wise words indeed


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Sklansky: It's unjust for a good man to suffer torture in Hell for eternity.
chezlaw: Don't worry, David, there's no difference between that and playing poker.

[chezlaw]

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perhaps this wil help;

2+2 book: here we should raise with Aces
nearly everyone: Wise words indeed


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Sklansky: It's unjust for a good man to suffer torture in Hell for eternity.
chezlaw: Don't worry, David, there's no difference between that and playing poker.

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That completely misses, or more likely ignores, the point. Its also not what I said as of course the monstous idea that your god would behave in such a way is very different from playing poker.

Is just means that even if there's no god then everything we do on a day to day basis isn't futile. Ultimately futile yes, futile no.

Same with meaning, justice etc etc

chez

[NotReady]

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the monstous idea


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Why is it monstrous?

[arahant]

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the monstous idea


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Why is it monstrous?

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Why do you think it isn't monstrous?