ZeeJustin apologizes

[RikaKazak]

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He is the biggest cheat to get caught (that we know of). He is the scum of online poker that we all fear. His actions give us all as poker players a bad name.

Yet, people still continue to blow the guy? UN-FREAKIN-REAL!

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NH sir

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I second this

[MisterNatural]

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In effect, he stole many thousands of dollars from the guys that came second and third, etc, in the tournaments in which he cheated.

He didn't use a gun to steal it from them, so I guess he shouldn't be jailed; but I can't see any reason why anyone could think of accepting a thief back into the fraternity until at least a penance of many years of exile has passed.

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I don't have it in for ZeeJustin in or anything, but someone who steals thousands of dollars should be put in jail. He is lucky to have his freedom and his life after pulling a stunt like that. Just having his funds confiscated inspires others to do what he did and cash out faster.

I don't think there is any way he can regain credibility as an honest player. This incident will cost him money in potential endorsements and business deals. He needs to change his identity OR spin the whole thing the other way so that he can profit greatly from it. He needs to become the infamous swindler of his generation. Done correctly, the world will love him for it. How about a reality show where ZeeJustin shows how he can make half a million dollars by cheating at poker and they can't do anything to him? Who wouldn't watch that? The trick is, at this stage, Zee can't show any remorse for his actions. He's gotta commit to the role publicly as a charismatic thieving prick who is "just born that way". Later he can get into drugs and whores and get caught robbing a liquor store and go to jail. He'll have cornrows in his hair and everything. The movie will star that spikey haired kid from Jerry Maguire all grown up and tough now. When he get's older he'll be like a Danny Bonaduce all burned out and 12 stepped missing his mouse hand.

Other than that, he's gotta find Jesus Christ and become some sort of reformed poker saint.

[Artsemis]

Speaking of "spin", those of you automatically saying he is releasing this apology to control his reputation and nothing more are just as likely putting a spin on his apology as he is.

You say he's doing to to appear apologetic. He says he's apologizing. Would you rather he remain silent? What would he have to do so that you can know he's apologizing and not just controlling his reputation as best he can?

Fact is, you can't. I believe in forgiveness and see no reason to automatically assume it isn't sincere.

[jmillerdls]

So, umm...how could he not think, originally, that it was not unethical to play more than one account/buyin in a freezeout tournament?

There is no way he could ever convince me that he didn't know exactly what he was doing was cheating. Why would it be so hard to do it then? If its ethical, why wouldn't Party just let you buyin multiple times to a freeze out tourney all from one account? They let you multi-table.

By saying this...well, its clear he's still full of it...sorry, but he still hasn't earned any redemption from me.

[betadecay]

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So, umm...how could he not think, originally, that it was not unethical to play more than one account/buyin in a freezeout tournament?



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I think he means to say the ethics were never addressed. This was a very common practice prior to the jjprodigy bust. In his circle of poker friends I'm sure it was a staple.

On a side note, he never commented on the issue of using 6 seperate accounts for the high stake SnG's. This is another area that is black and white cheating. Despite the busts in Feb, I'm sure there are still many people that do this at the high stake SnG's. I assume he still thinks this was ok as he mentioned that his SnG wins were "legitamate". They were not.

[lemondropmmm]

I am usually one to forgive and forget, and will almost always accept an honest apology. However, this one fails three tests.

1. It took too dang long. If he was truly sorry the apology would have come faster.

2. If I rob a bank, and then buy a lottery ticket with those funds, I don't get to keep the lottery winnings. He does not understand that Party Poker was correct to take all of his money. It was all tainted as even what he won without cheating was obtained using money obtained by cheating. Since he's given it plenty of thought, the conclusion has to be he isn't sorry and doesn't understand what he did wrong.

3. If he is actually being honest about how he feels about the sanctity of the game, and how important honesty and a fair game is, he simply needs to let the major poker sites know the names of all of his cheating friends. Or we have to assume that his talk about integrity was just that, talk.

The Lemon

[betadecay]

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i am WAY more than double his age, and i have never found myself in such a spot morally.

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This is not true. I'm sure your moral dillema's might not have been on as big a scale, but saying you never found yourself consciously doing something wrong and having to deal with the issues that arise from that is not smart. We all have that experience. I would say that the actions that happen after are more telling of character then the immoral actions themselves [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] . Again because we all make immoral decisions.

On a related note, I very recently had a moral issue at Party. It took about two days after this issue to finally conclude I was doing something wrong. It seemed like a grey area at first(as I'm sure is the case the majority of the time with these experiences). After two days of mulling over it I finally concluded I was doing something wrong. Luckily it was the very first time I had ever done it. It will be the last time.

Ironically it was a random conversation with a 2p2er that got me thinking about the issue.

[suzzer99]

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I have read no replies yet. So I might be in the minority.

People makes mistakes. At least he is man enough to fess up to what he has done wrong. He has, in my mind, made a first step in rehabbing his reputation.

Call me crazy, but I believe in forgiveness and redemption.

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good, invite him to your homegame.

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See now I think all you people who want to fry the guy may be nuts. Personally I lean toward giving him a break. But I'm rather new to the whole poker community thing, so I'm willing to listen to both sides.

But then I read something like this. Come on. You really think he'd try to cheat at a home poker game? Wake up to reality.

[kickabuck]

Like most everyone else on these forums, I thought ZeeJustin should be strung up from the nearest tree. However reading this perhaps there is room for forgiveness for the young man. It seems plausible that, in his warped mindset, his actions were no big deal. His friends were all doing it and for whatever reason he didn't have the ability to see what he was doing was horribly wrong. Perhaps only the negative onslaught of the poker community and time showed him the error of his ways.

Rarely do people with skewed thinking instantly reform, it is very natural to be defensive and to not see why they are wrong, which may explain his initial response. I think this post could be a good start, if he is sincere of course. Therein lies the problem for the young man, his previous actions will always leave a seed of doubt in his peer's minds, but that and $100,00 is the price you pay for unethical behavior.

[MisterNatural]

ZeeJustin owes me no apology, and I hold no i'll will towards him. Of course, if I caught him cheating at my table, I'd kick his ass. It really doesn't matter what he says here. We will never know how heartfelt or malipulative he is being. What does matter is how he feels about it for his own spiritual well being. That said, if he really did want to make ammends, how about he gets the hand histories of the tournaments that he cheated in, identifies all of the people that he knocked out and quietly asks Party and Poker Stars to refund these people's buy-ins from new funds of his own. These people would receive their money with a note from the poker sites which would not identify ZeeJustin, but rather put the blame on cheaters who will go nameless. This way, Zee can take steps to clear his conscience by doing the right thing and not profit from it by making it public. He should never speak of this to anyone. These would be the FIRST steps of someone who really felt remorse for what they had done and would go a long way towards character building.