A - would this be legal and B - doesn anyone want to help?

lgkeeper · #1 03-27-2006, 11:36 PM

I was posting a bit back about my inability to "close the deal," ie getting a good stack and taking the tournament down.

So, if this isn't unethical (I'm not sure if it is or not) would someone be interested in "coaching" me through at tourney late stages by observing and IMing back and forth?

If people (or sites, though I didn't see anything in the rules against it) deem this to be shady, I understand - that's why I'm asking.

FortFun · #2 03-27-2006, 11:40 PM

This would be perfectly legal at PokerStars since Lee Jones has explicitly stated that they don't have a "one person to a hand rule" at PokerStars since it would be unenforcable. Lee Jones on "one hand to a person" rule

lgkeeper · #3 03-27-2006, 11:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This would be perfectly legal at PokerStars since Lee Jones has explicitly stated that they don't have a "one person to a hand rule" at PokerStars since it would be unenforcable. Lee Jones on "one hand to a person" rule

[/ QUOTE ]

I saw that - though I don't play on Start too often, just on Full Tilt. I don't think sites have any rule against it - I'm curious as to whether or not it's "unethical"

MixMastaPJ · #4 03-27-2006, 11:46 PM

do what u have to do to win, hes not in the tourney right?

the crabs · #5 03-28-2006, 12:06 AM

would the person helping you get a cut of the prize money?

I mean if someone was sitting there for 4 hours helping me, I'd give him a little something, depending on what place I got.

runout_mick · #6 03-28-2006, 02:17 AM

I don't know if it was "ethical" or not, but when I taught a lifelong friend to play, I spent the entire weekend physically looking over his shoulder and explaining the whats and whys of every situation that arose. After the initial "live" coaching, I'd often observe his play and offer suggestions as they arose.

After a few months of this, and after digesting all my assigned reading and studying, he's flown solo.

I only viewed this as an educational tool, as it would have been no different than him looking over my shoulder, except he got the hands on "feel" of the interface.

Ethical or not, this process shortcut his learning by a year or two IMO.

Don't know if my ramble helps or not, but there it is...

$_DEADSEXE_$ · #7 03-28-2006, 02:33 AM

I know Daniel N has stated when he was coming up that Jen Harman would let him watch her play and view her hole cards...i'm sure he constantly questioned her later about why to make a certain move etc etc

If she was playing online he could ask her realtime instead of after.

I personally don't see anything unethical with your friend sitting with u or someone else and saying...nah he's bluffing call him etc or you need to make a continuation bet blah blah blah.
Its part of online poker.

Now if your friend has u buy into a tourney with his money while hes at home and in the same tourney and is basically using both accounts to play a tourney then thats unethical but not illegal since there is no way to police it.

MeanGreenTT · #8 03-28-2006, 10:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
....as it would have been no different than him looking over my shoulder, except he got the hands on "feel" of the interface.

Ethical or not, this process shortcut his learning by a year or two IMO.

Don't know if my ramble helps or not, but there it is...

[/ QUOTE ]

Not arguing as the sites have already acknowledged knowing and not doing anything about the "collusion" but the difference is that in "live play" there's only 1 person making the decision, even if coaching is going on later, that benefits the future and not the current hand in play. On the internet, coaching affects the hand in play, pitting multiple players against a single player.

Again, not arguing, just noting the fundamental difference between live and internet play.

diesel13 · #9 03-28-2006, 01:03 PM

If legal, what would such a service cost? Flat fee or a take of the winnings?

KKsuited · #10 03-28-2006, 02:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If legal, what would such a service cost? Flat fee or a take of the winnings?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's legal because Pokerstars can't enforce it (as stated by Lee). If they could enforce it, then it would be illegal just like in live play.

It's unethical, no question. If I play in a tournament and have fossilman telling me what to do the whole time...1)that's chickenshit and I couldn't face myself knowing I can't play a tournament on my own and 2) poker is not a team sport, so I'm not sure how you can justify it other than Lee saying, "we can't enforce it, so it's not illegal."

If you want to take lessons and have someone coach you, that's one thing, but having someone guide you through a tournament so you can win some money is lame.

Of course we now live in a world of cheaters, scammers, multi-accounters, colluders, people who stall on the bubble so they can hopefully make a dollar. The internet has just made so many people gutless.