Bizarre problem with percentages...

[VoxGibson]

I encountered a hand and wanted to run it through pokerstove...

it was

6s6h

vs
AcTc

it came out as a %51.5 to 48.5

then i ran the same pocket 6h6s

against AcKc

and it came out to 52.112 to 47.888

is this correct? is AcTc a little bit better of a hand then AcKc in this situation or is pokerstoves math wrong?

Bizarre...

Anyone know the answer?

[MadTiger]

To get the "exact" percentage, you would have to run it a long time.

[matv]

u can get more straights with a 10 in ur hand

[VoxGibson]

1,712,304 games 0.010 secs 171,230,400 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 51.5086 % 51.32% 00.18% { 6h6s }
Hand 2: 48.4914 % 48.31% 00.18% { AcTc }

1,712,304 games 0.010 secs 171,230,400 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 52.1122 % 51.93% 00.18% { 6h6s }
Hand 2: 47.8878 % 47.70% 00.18% { AcKc }

[smbruin22]

basically, as someone said, the 10 is basically blocking you somewhat, and better chance at straight with AT vs. AK.

i think what you are somewhat confusing is multi-player vs. heads up.... hard to explain, but if i have 76s, it doesn't matter much whether you have QQ or KK, you just a have a much larger pair than me in both case, which i think is better than 88 as the latter will constrain your straight potential.

[VoxGibson]

OK, i get it, thanks for the help

[AaronBrown]

AT wins on 10,353 extra boards and ties on 36 fewere.

Both AK and AT can form 1 straight using three cards from the board. But AK cannot form any using four cards from the board, while AT can form three (Q-high, J-high and T-high). The T-high is less likely than the others because there are only two sixes available.

A specific four card straight can be formed 9,472 ways (half that for the T-high straight due to the missing 6's). There's some overlap there, some hands form a six card straight. Also, some T-high four card straights give 66 either quads or a full house.

Other than the straights, in any case that AT wins and AK doesn't, there is a corresponding equal probability case where AK wins and AT doesn't. For example a board of Kxxxx wins for AK, Txxxx wins for AT. For boards that don't pair either K or T, either both hands win or neither.

[DrPhysic]

We may be saying the same thing, but it doesn't have anything to do with the A hand.

Your chance of getting the st with AK or AT are almost identical. And the K and T are basically identical percentage wise against the 66. An overcard is an overcard.

The difference in the percentage, IMO, is that the T blocks the high end straight for the 66 hand. The 6 has one less card available to make the 6789T st.

Doc

[smbruin22]

[ QUOTE ]
We may be saying the same thing, but it doesn't have anything to do with the A hand.

Your chance of getting the st with AK or AT are almost identical. And the K and T are basically identical percentage wise against the 66. An overcard is an overcard.

The difference in the percentage, IMO, is that the T blocks the high end straight for the 66 hand. The 6 has one less card available to make the 6789T st.

Doc

[/ QUOTE ]

doesn't it matter slightly that your opponent has somewhat better chance to get straight with AT than AK. just another way(albeit slim way) to beat you.

the generic point which is fascinating is that if you have 66 or 67s, it doesn't matter whether your opponent has AA or QQ (but you still get the huge reaction when someone turns over AA)... put another way, alot of people would think that KK is the best hand to have vs. AA, whereas it's actually a free and clear pair

[JerseyStar]

This is a very interesting post...I've been having some suspicions lately about their potential

(I'm often busted out of tourney's by straights when I'm anywhere between an 1.5-2.5 favorite, a wide range i know, in a race)

I've also very very often folded winning suited connectors after several 'ok' players call raises w/ big cards and are often sharing them, decreasing the # of 'unknown' cards and improving my chances.

If I have five straights but basically if I'm holding 45s
It seems i have 5*4*4*4 straights available to me and that does not include flushes, two pr, or trips.

Has anyone ever done a Stove simulation and run a suited connector against n hands with a range of AJ+ (and maybe pckt prs 8 or better although I suspect these would significantly decrease your equity)? What I want to get at is how many hands need to call to make a suited connectors profitable preflop?

Clasically, these are hands you get in cheaply then push if the money odds are right but mathematically the order in which the cards come out really doesn't matter so much (assuming the outcome is the same i.e. you got all your money in w/ at least break even odds)