ever seen a chip leader go all in on a dry pot on a bluff?

texman · #1 03-26-2006, 03:19 AM

it was in a full tilt tourney so i can't convert but here is the history:

24 people left out of 860. seat 7 villian has been splashing around in pots with very little in his hand - including an early position raise with 33. The blinds are very tight and folding often. I have only been at the table for maybe 3 rounds and played maybe 2 pots winning both and not showing down a hand.
Obviously I can be criticized for calling in the first place and in retrospect i should have bet the turn.
My main reason to post this is: Has anyone ever seen an all in bluff at a dry pot?

FullTiltPoker Game #523958163: $18,000 Guarantee (3313094), Table 72 - 1200/2400 Ante 300 - No Limit Hold'em - 1:38:12 ET - 2006/03/26
Seat 1: BlueRue (85,101)
Seat 2: Qronic (49,912)
Seat 3: hero (72,698)
Seat 5: martinguitars (18,040)
Seat 6: jtheo7 (38,454)
Seat 7: villian (89,455)
Seat 9: AA23BEST (63,183)
BlueRue antes 300
Qronic antes 300
hero antes 300
martinguitars antes 300
jtheo7 antes 300
villian antes 300
AA23BEST antes 300
martinguitars posts the small blind of 1,200
jtheo7 posts the big blind of 2,400
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to hero [6c 7c]
villian raises to 4,800
AA23BEST folds
BlueRue folds
Qronic folds
hero calls 4,800
martinguitars raises to 17,740, and is all in
jtheo7 folds
villian calls 12,940
jtheo7: martin
martinguitars: lol
hero has 15 seconds left to act
hero calls 12,940
*** FLOP *** [Qc 9d 8s]
villian checks
hero checks
*** TURN *** [Qc 9d 8s] [7d]
villian checks
hero checks
*** RIVER *** [Qc 9d 8s 7d] [4c]
villian has 15 seconds left to act
villian bets 71,415, and is all in
hero folds
Uncalled bet of 71,415 returned to madscientist5
*** SHOW DOWN ***
villian shows [As 6d] (Ace Queen high)
martinguitars shows [Kc Ah] (Ace King high)
martinguitars wins the pot (57,720) with Ace King high
The blinds are now 1,500/3,000 with an ante of 400
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 57,720 | Rake 0
Board: [Qc 9d 8s 7d 4c]
Seat 1: BlueRue folded before the Flop
Seat 2: Qronic folded before the Flop
Seat 3:hero (button) folded on the River
Seat 5: martinguitars (small blind) showed [Kc Ah] and won (57,720) with Ace King high
Seat 6: jtheo7 (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 7: villian showed [As 6d] and lost with Ace Queen high
Seat 9: AA23BEST folded before the Flop

I think calling the all in bet was ok mistake because the pot was around 45000 and it was 12940

I figured the blind had AK and i wasn't sure what the villian had but i thought my 76 was good on the turn and i reluctantly checked fearing a reraise. Also how much should I have bet on the flop or turn to probe?

JCCARL · #2 03-26-2006, 04:00 AM

Did not read your post beyond the title, but yes, more than a few times.
Regards,
Carl

wheatrich · #3 03-26-2006, 04:02 AM

The words bluff a dry side pot--oh I've only seen that oh a whole freaking lot. We all have to learn to stop folding to that even I've only picked a few off cause my brain kicks in with the "why would he bluff that it doesn't make any sense" problem I have.

willie · #4 03-26-2006, 05:10 AM

yeah i've seen it

but i still don't think you can call it here- i really don't.

El Viajero · #5 03-26-2006, 09:32 AM

Yeah, I've seen my mate do it in a live game a Gutshot. He was chip leader, got dealt an A2o and went all in, pre-flop on a semi-bluff. His villain had pocket aces... oh did I laugh my head off! I was out of the tourney anyway and didn't want to hang around all night so he really did me a favour!

Stipe_fan · #6 03-26-2006, 09:43 AM

Yep....seen it many times, and each time I can't believe it.

I heard a story from last years WSOP (not the ME). A drunk chipleader did the same thing, bluffed the dry side of a pot and let Allen Cunningham win the pot and eventually win the tournament. The two opponents(I believe were both pros) that he bluffed out were absolutely livid.

Stipe

texman · #7 03-26-2006, 11:43 AM

yeah i heard that story too, the pro he forced to fold was dewey tomko --- i heard dewey was quite pissed - i read cunningham laughed and said - "that would be really funny if you were bluffing" and the guy said "I am" and turn over high card - i don't even think it was an ace high

McMelchior · #8 03-26-2006, 03:08 PM

There's no "Prime Directive" against bluffing into a dry site pot.

Whether it makes any sense or not depends.

The typical situation where it doesn't make sense is at the final table or on the final table bubble where the elimination of one player significantly increases everybody else's $EV.

This far from the FT there's no substantial advantage for the chip leader to see one player eliminated.

Actually there's a dis-advantage for him if you win: He will no longer be the chip leader and will have a much harder time bullying you around. Additionally there a few - just a few - hands chip leader can beat, that the all-in player theoretically might hold; it's a risky move, but he increases his chance of winning the pot by denying you access to the show down.

I'm not defending the move, but not understanding chip leaders possible motivation for it renders you more helpless against it.

Best,

McMelchior (Johan)

wmspringer · #9 03-26-2006, 03:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
My main reason to post this is: Has anyone ever seen an all in bluff at a dry pot?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, last SnG I played; 3 left, small stack was AI and the big stack pushed me out :-p