turn spot

[Surf]

I check and call river. I can't make him fold anything i want him to fold so i'll settle for inducing a bluff occasionally and never folding the best hand/4outs, though that benefit is of dubious legitimacy.

Surf

[Our House]

BK,

Can you tell us which two flop cards are clubs?

I check and call a river bet, betting when checked to on nonclub river.
I need to see a showdown here but it sucks to pay 3 when behind and gain less when ahead. He will bluff the river some of the time anyways, sometimes WE are the ones getting the freecard. I think the pros of the checkthrough really outweigh the cons here.

[Wynton]

I like betting and taking the sure money, more than trying to induce a river bluff, which is far from a sure thing.

[JayRockets]

I most certainly bet here. So many hands that need to be charged here, if he check raises, it only kind of sucks. You have to make a club pay, or any king with a pair. Also, if you check, then you have no idea where you stand on the river, if it's say a Q and you have checked the turn and he bets, can you raise? Just don't like sacraficing the knowledge gained by a bet. Ontop of that, if he is a good player, then he will notice if you check the turn and win the river that you are being a pussy for not betting the turn. No one likes to be a pussy.

Unless we know he has the ability to check-raise a wide-range of hands here, I bet and charge him to outdraw me. If we know him to be rather tricky, then I prefer a check and call on the river by a long shot.

In the first case where I bet the turn, I have every intention of getting to showdown if check-raised.

Anyway, the most important part about this hand for me is getting to a showdown against an unknown. That said, if you think you might fold to a turn check-raise, then by all means, check behind as I think the times he will bluff-bet the river compensates for most of the times we let him draw for free.

[ISF]

I would almost always check here. I cant see any hand folding that you want to fold, and I doubt you are ahead of his range here. If you are then not much ahead. I just dont think you loose more the times you are behind/way behind then you gain by betting when you are a little ahead.

[DeathDonkey]

Ok so that guy has to be terrified of that board as well. I mean he has to pretty much think you flopped the universe because AQo is like the bottom end of your range there and everything else just made a huge hand. Like he might not even checkraise the turn with 99. Anyway if he checkraises the turn you have like 3 outs sometimes and no outs sometimes and I guess sometimes you are already still ahead and he is semibluffing but on that board I just don't see it from a seemingly good player because he has to think you have a huge hand a good amount of the time so he would have to be pretty insane to semibluff when he is going to get called down by all these non straight monsters and 3 bet by straights so my play would be bet and fold to a checkraise.

-DeathDonkey

[bicyclekick]

I was the CO in this hand, and the button was a seemingly decent player, but we'd only played 35 hands together or so.

He bet the turn, I c/r, the river blanked, and he called down.

I showed 65 of clubs and dragged the pot.

Do I raise that very often in that spot? (pre-flop) No, but sometimes I do.

I think checking the turn is a good chunk better than betting, and if you do bet, calling down a c/r is a pretty big losing play.

You guys want to 'charge' so bad it's incredible. I think this is one of those boards where there's so much going on on it and you have a pretty weak hand yourself, it's best to just check behind, call a river bet and be done with the hand. If he's a complete moron then you can bet a little easier, but with good players, you just can't get away with trying to charge them in situations like this.

Least that's my thoughts.

[mscags]

Very interesting. Thanks for the insight BK. After reading your analysis and some of the others, I do agree that checking behind the turn is the correct play.