Home Game Misdeal Situation

Wheezl · #1 03-23-2006, 07:07 AM

1/2 PL Omaha HI/Holdem cash game. The button has called Omaha for the hand in question. There has already been preflop and flop action. On the turn UTG is skipped by the guy immediately to his left who makes a bet of about 100$ into a 100$ pot. This bet is then quickly called by two players and the dealer (designated, tipped and not involved in the game) burns and turns the river before UTG realizes he has been skipped. At this point a huge argument breaks out about how the situation should be dealt with. I need to know what the correct procedure is for this situation. Ill post what I ruled and what happened (violence is involved)

Josey_Wales · #2 03-23-2006, 10:17 AM

Tough question. I think I would say that the action is picked up and the initial bettor who was skipped has the option to bet or check and continue from there. Once the action is complete, the river card is picked up, shuffled into the deck, the deck cut, then without burning a card, a new river card is dealt.

No matter how this is handled, whether by a steadfast rule or decision on the fly, someone will always feel shorted. There is no easy answer.

--The Outlaw

_TKO_ · #3 03-23-2006, 01:59 PM

UTG must be allowed to act on the turn. UTG+1's bet will stand. If it is enough to raise UTG should UTG decide to bet, then it will be counted as a raise. Most likely action is that UTG will check, but UTG must still act on the $100 bet. After all players have acted on the turn card, river card is shuffled back into the deck. No burn, river is dealt again.

Dromar · #4 03-23-2006, 02:23 PM

I think redealing the river is the best way to do this also. Some people are definitely going to feel cheated, if, say, the first "river" was a heart, completing their flush, but the second wasn't. But it's important to make the players understand that the first "river" card wasn't really the river card, because, according to the rules, the river card is dealt after all the turn bets are complete. This premature river card is NOT the river card at all. Just a dealer blundering by turning over a random card from the deck.

Of course, the guy who missed his flush because of this still isn't going to be very happy.

getmyrunon · #5 03-23-2006, 02:37 PM

How much time elapsed before the dealer accidentally dealt the river? Was it so fast that UTG couldn't object to being skipped?

Wheezl · #6 03-23-2006, 06:20 PM

I had seen this situation occur in a different home game before, and this was my understanding of what should be done. I couldnt find any documentation on it at first, but since posting this I found some poker rules by Ciaffone that covered this situation, and it looks to be the correct way to handle it. I told the players that the bets on the turn would be taken back and UTG would be able to act first. Of course the player who was making the biggest fuss was the one who made the nuts with that rivered club. He was drunk and would not accept my explanation of why the card needed to be reshuffled. About 5 of the guys there could play linebacker for an NFL team and were all friends. The guy who was drunk said the wrong thing and my table got flipped up while drunk guy got his face rearranged. I ended up just having to take everyone's word for how much they had in front of them and paid them out. This ended up erasing much of the nights profits, but its the first incident Ive had in a year of running this game. It was drunk guy's first time at my game, and he was invited by the guy who was dealing the table for me. So hopefully when he wakes up with a hangover and a broken eye socket he will realize that he wasnt being cheated. I gave the dealer 140$ which is what that guy had bought in for overall. I told him to give him the money and explain that he wasnt cheated but to never come back to the game.

Tarheel · #7 03-24-2006, 10:38 AM

In a 1/2 game...one guy has time to bet $100, 2 guys have time to "quickly call" a $100 bet, and the dealer flips another card. And then all of a sudden UTG notices he was a) not given a chance to bet out.
b) not given a chance to call the bet.

I have a hard time believing this and would keep an eye on UTG from now on.

ellipse_87 · #8 03-24-2006, 01:35 PM

Shouldn't UTG have some responsibility for speaking up before the river card is dealt? When he sees the dealer begin to lay down the burn card, he has an opportunity to call time out. There should be some mechanism for preventing UTG from taking advantage of the situation and waiting to see the river card. If the card helps him, he can check to make the previous street's error inconspicuous. If he isn't helped, he can object to the error and get a do-over on the river. I dunno. Seems like at a csino you have to give the skipped player the benefit of the doubt, while in a home game you have the option of bitch-slapping the guy for being either inattentive or duplicitous.

Dromar · #9 03-25-2006, 04:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Shouldn't UTG have some responsibility for speaking up before the river card is dealt? When he sees the dealer begin to lay down the burn card, he has an opportunity to call time out. There should be some mechanism for preventing UTG from taking advantage of the situation and waiting to see the river card. If the card helps him, he can check to make the previous street's error inconspicuous. If he isn't helped, he can object to the error and get a do-over on the river. I dunno. Seems like at a csino you have to give the skipped player the benefit of the doubt, while in a home game you have the option of bitch-slapping the guy for being either inattentive or duplicitous.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a good point. Some dealers knock their fist on the table before they deal another card, as a way to say "I'm about to turn another card. Speak up if I need to be stopped." If the dealer did that, I would be a bit suspicious of UTG from now on, and maybe just disqualify his hand.