$200 PLO, Looks Like Trouble

[liquid]

$200 PLO, 10-handed.

Hero is in B1 with $213.

B2 has $146. No history.

UTG has $81. Loose.

UTG+2 (pre-flop raiser) has $63. Has been sitting for an orbit, has played every hand, and has pushed his short stack on the flop a couple times to win without showdown. I suspect he is goofy.

CO has $230. Has been sitting for an orbit, has played a few hands, and has won a couple with uncalled PSBs. No other history.

Dealt to Hero: 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

PRE-FLOP
Hero posts blind ($2), B2 posts blind ($2). UTG calls $2, 1 fold, UTG+2 bets $10, 3 folds, CO calls $10, 1 fold, Hero calls $8, B2 calls $8, UTG calls $8.

(5 players, $50) FLOP [8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]]

Hero's plan?

Feel free to comment on pre-flop as well, you weak-tight chuckleheads.

[RoundTower]

This one is tricky. It sounds like you expect the raiser to bet if checked to, even on a co-ordinated board like this.

If so I check, hope he bets, hope the big stack gets out of the way, and push. I am willing to play this hand all in heads up against anyone other than the big stack. I'm not very happy with this line though and would like to hear a better idea.

Preflop is fine: surely no one is folding this nice hand, or reraising from the blinds? Not counting BluffTHIS here.

[Pouncer]

I'd lead for $25 and see what happens. If UTG+2 pushes, that should reopen the betting for you to push over any callers. If you lead and get a bunch of callers, you'll have to revaluate after the turn card.

[mshalen]

If you realy really really believe utg+2 will bet then I would go for the check raise. I just hate giving free cards when the flop has two suits. As far as the preflop call - I tend to think that I am weak tight but I would make that call almost every time.

[beset]

Lead for 30 and then decided whether or not to 3-bet after i see how the field responds

[BluffTHIS!]

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop is fine: surely no one is folding this nice hand, or reraising from the blinds? Not counting BluffTHIS here.

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

My standard for completing the SB is a little looser than that for limping utg, but not much. And while I would call a single player who raised and was marked with aces for a headsup flop, I'm still not calling a raise pre and having to play the most likely result of a draw, flopped set with no redraws or a board set with lower kickers OOP in a multiway pot.

As hero played it though, he has a very weak redraw to a full and should check the flop. What he needs to do is to be able to play this headsup, so checkraising if he thinks that action will get it headsup is the only play that justifies not folding. He badly needs to drive out either the bare nut flush draw or a set/2 pair, and doesn't want any though decisions on the turn or river. But if he doesn't think such a checkraise will get it headsup because the opponents are loose drawers, then he should check/fold. Which means of course he pissed away the price of the preflop raise and had to fold the nuts on the flop. Which is why he shouldn't have called the preflop raise in the first place.

[abscr]

[ QUOTE ]

. . . and had to fold the nuts on the flop.


[/ QUOTE ]

He has 4 to 8, not 5 to 9.

[Full Metal]

Would check/calling then pushing a blank turn be reasonable in this spot? Assuming you are heads up or 3 handed on the turn.

[liquid]

[ QUOTE ]
[img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

My standard for completing the SB is a little looser than that for limping utg, but not much. And while I would call a single player who raised and was marked with aces for a headsup flop, I'm still not calling a raise pre and having to play the most likely result of a draw, flopped set with no redraws or a board set with lower kickers OOP in a multiway pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually agree with BluffTHIS that this is a loose pre-flop call (the baiting in my OP notwithstanding). I [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] low runs vs. a foe marked with high cards, but being out of position 5-way with this hand is not my idea of giggles. When I called the PFR, I could count on the loose UTG foe calling as well, making this at least a 4-way pot. I still wanted to see a flop and got exactly the trouble I was looking for.

[liquid]

(5 players, $50) FLOP [8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]]
Hero checks, B2 checks, UTG checks, UTG+2 bets $50, CO calls $50, Hero calls $50, UTG folds, UTG+2 folds.

(3 players, $200) TURN [A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]]
Hero checks, UTG+2 bets $3.20 and is all-in, CO bets $170 and is all-in, Hero calls $153.40 and is all-in.

(3 players, $500 + change) RIVER [6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]]

SHOWDOWN
CO shows [K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]] for two pair, aces and sevens.
Hero shows [5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]] for an 8-high straight.
UTG+2 shows [K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]] for a pair of kings and a busted flush draw.

I was not happy with my line. On the flop I was torn between (a) inducing the pre-flop raiser's bet and (b) seeing a safe turn before dumping my stack in. Trying to have it both ways by check-calling was silly. With CO's call I could have given B2 and UTG odds to outdraw me with a range of hands. Plus, either B2 or UTG could have been looking to induce UTG+2's bet as well, and I could be getting run into the nuts.

I think Pouncer/beset's suggestion to bet out 1/2 pot or so is the better way to evaluate the flop with two players between me and the PFR-er. Plus I might do the same with the nuts + a redraw or some other monster. The turn may be difficult, but oh well.

The one good thing about the line I took is that it disguised my hand. CO likely figured to be ahead against a draw. But I had to get all kinds of lucky -- lucky that B2 and UTG couldn't find a reason to call the flop; lucky to get a very good turn; lucky I wasn't up against better hands 5-way; and lucky I wasn't outdrawn anyway.