QQ, multiway, turn donk

kross · #1 01-04-2006, 05:25 AM

MP and BB are both major LAGtards, capping preflop quite light, and donking and raising with little or no piece of the flop

CO is loose and somewhat passive, 53/2/1.4

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP raises, CO calls, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, BB calls, MP calls, CO calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, MP bets, CO calls, Hero raises, BB calls, MP calls, CO calls.

Turn: (10.25 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, MP checks, CO bets, Hero ...

I think arguments can be made for all 3 options.

sharpie · #2 01-04-2006, 05:28 AM

Gotta give it up. If you're ahead there are a bunch of cards you have to dodge on the river, and I don't see you being good often.

LoaferGee · #3 01-04-2006, 05:30 AM

Ahh this really has me torn. I will say that a 1.4 AF with a 53 Vpip is actually decently aggressive. For this, I'm considering raising for a free showdown, folding to a turn 3-bet or river donk. I agree that a case could be made for all 3 options and I'm curious on other people's thoughts.

counterspell · #4 01-04-2006, 05:30 AM

i don't know if i could make this fold. the pot is huge and a 1.4 AF isn't all that passive.
it's definitely a tough spot, but i lean more towards raising to drive out low spades.

Innocentius · #5 01-04-2006, 06:07 AM

I also would find it hard to fold here. As previous posters have stated, 1.4 isn't really passive. This turn donk could easily be the A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Therefore, raising to get small spades out doesn't really seem right to me. If a spade comes on the river, we would be toast anyway. The CO will almost always have a K or a [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. This might be too passive, but I think I would be inclined to call the turn, and call on the river if anything but an A or a [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] comes.

LoaferGee · #6 01-04-2006, 06:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I also would find it hard to fold here. As previous posters have stated, 1.4 isn't really passive. This turn donk could easily be the A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Therefore, raising to get small spades out doesn't really seem right to me. If a spade comes on the river, we would be toast anyway. The CO will almost always have a K or a [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. This might be too passive, but I think I would be inclined to call the turn, and call on the river if anything but an A or a [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] comes.

[/ QUOTE ]

A raise will also knock out possible 4-5 outers as well, and it's not like we're losing anymore if we are behind than we would've if we just called down. Granted, the times we get 3-bet we won't be able to see a river as we would've if we had just called. However, with only 1 effective out, I don't see this as much of a problem.

TomBrooks · #7 01-04-2006, 06:48 AM

Fold looks ok to me

SinCityGuy · #8 01-04-2006, 07:50 AM

This is one of those situations that is close enough not to lose sleep over, as long as you don't CALL.

Innocentius · #9 01-04-2006, 08:06 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I also would find it hard to fold here. As previous posters have stated, 1.4 isn't really passive. This turn donk could easily be the A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Therefore, raising to get small spades out doesn't really seem right to me. If a spade comes on the river, we would be toast anyway. The CO will almost always have a K or a [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. This might be too passive, but I think I would be inclined to call the turn, and call on the river if anything but an A or a [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] comes.

[/ QUOTE ]

A raise will also knock out possible 4-5 outers as well, and it's not like we're losing anymore if we are behind than we would've if we just called down. Granted, the times we get 3-bet we won't be able to see a river as we would've if we had just called. However, with only 1 effective out, I don't see this as much of a problem.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed, calling is bad. Fold or raise? I don't know. It would feel really awful to lose this pot to an unimproved A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], but on the other hand, CO:s most likely holding is a king, and when he doesn't have it, he almost certainly has a spade.

Chairman Wood · #10 01-04-2006, 08:06 AM

[ QUOTE ]
CO is loose and somewhat passive, 53/2/1.4

[/ QUOTE ]
I think this guy is fairly aggresive, especially concerning his VPIP. I give it a raise, costs just as much as calling down, fold to a 3-bet. This pot is large and I want it.