4 hands, weak / weak draws - too aggressive?

Dr1Gonzo · #1 03-22-2006, 05:45 AM

Hi
Would appreciate some comments on these hands. Some of them are middle pair hands, which I think I rwad in SSHE that you had to play aggressively. However, I think this got me in trouble:

Hand 1
Full Tilt Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $1/$2
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is MP1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
2 folds, Hero raises, 5 folds, BB calls.

Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4.5SB, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

Turn: 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3.25BB, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

River: 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5.25BB, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

Results:
Final pot: 7.25BB

Hand 2
Full Tilt Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $1/$2
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
6 folds, Hero raises, SB folds, BB 3-bets, Hero calls.

Flop: 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6.5SB, 2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls.

Turn: 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5.25BB, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

River: Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (7.25BB, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Results:
Final pot: 7.25BB

Hand 3
Full Tilt Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $1/$2
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is Button with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
6 folds, Hero raises, SB folds, BB 3-bets, Hero calls.

Flop: 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6.5SB, 2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls.

Turn: K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5.25BB, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

River: K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5.25BB, 2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: 7.25BB

Hand 4
Full Tilt Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $0.50/$1
8 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is CO with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
4 folds, Hero raises, 2 folds, BB 3-bets, Hero Caps, BB calls.

Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (8.5SB, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

Turn: 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5.25BB, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

River: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (7.25BB, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

Results:
Final pot: 9.25BB

VickreyAuction · #2 03-22-2006, 05:56 AM

Hand 1- Check behind on the river. The only thing that's calling the flop and turn that will fold is a draw, and you beat that anyway. I doubt he'll fold a paired 6.
Hand 2- I play it the same, nh.
Hand 3- Ugh! Fold Preflop. As played, you did well to get as cheap of a showdown as possible, but there's no way you're good here. What's he 3betting that doesn't have a king, an ace or a PP?
Hand 4- I don't cap this preflop. As played, I like the flop bet. But take the free card on the turn. You have a strong draw and you probably don't have the best hand at the moment. Then if you hit the T on the river, call the other guy's bet or bet if checked to. As played, river bet is fine.

Kramerr · #3 03-22-2006, 05:58 AM

Hand 4 ...why are you betting on the turn? you could get a free card and try to hit your flush

Hand 2 first one you can't try and take this one down if you know his going to call anyway...youre hand isn't strong anyways
And the other hand...is this the same table? If it is then it really seems like BB has had enough of your stealing and fights back ...so don't try to steal from him If you know his not tigt and not gonna fold pf or post-flop

...I think you are way too aggressive player IMO
Hand 1...I would have maybe played this one the same...dunno though seems like this guy just won't buy it ...and you shouldn't never try to bluff bad players [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Dr1Gonzo · #4 03-22-2006, 07:14 AM

So with Hand 2 would you have just called the flop instead of raised? I figured raising would let me find out whether he had a 9 or not?
I could have then check/folded the turn and/or river?

Turns out he had A9. I find it difficult to see what players have if they play timidly like that?

bodnotbod · #5 03-22-2006, 07:59 AM

: grunch :

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

But not necessarily in that order.

martinimagic · #6 03-22-2006, 09:10 AM

Hand 1 Check/fold the river.

Hand 2 Fold PF, not even close.

Hand 3 You can't raise 96o and call against a PF 3-bet. You might want to reconsider your PF play and get a copy of SSHE. Some fundamentals are missing here.

Hand 4 PF raise is acceptable, but capping is bad. You have a good draw on the flop, but you should be calling down with hopes of hitting not raising. SSHE will give you the info needed to know when to raise and call here as well.

Your preflop play is a little suspect and you are getting yourself all tangled up postflop. Hang around the forum for a while before playing again and use the stickies at the top of the forum to get some starter tips. You may even want to drop back a limit to protect the BR.

Dr1Gonzo · #7 03-22-2006, 09:16 AM

Hand 2 and Hand 3 I wa son the button trying to steal.
Is it not even worth doing this in a limit game if you have 6 folds in front of you?

I've been reading SSHE. I admit I don't understand all the principles completely but I'm pretty certain it tells you to raise flush draws on the flop...(1) for value as the flush comes in almost 1/3rd of the time and (2) as you may get a free card. I didn't take it there but I should have done

...?

Fantam · #8 03-22-2006, 09:32 AM

Hand 1:
Check behind on the river. Your opponent looks as though he will call a bet, and you only have K high.

Hand 2:
Looks ok. Doubtful that your opponent will call a river bet with a worse hand.

Hand 3:
96o is too weak a hand to attempt to steal the blinds with.
Fold preflop. Fold your weak middle pair to the flop bet. BB could easily have an Ace after he 3-bet preflop.

Hand 4:
Dont cap preflop. ATs is a strong hand and more than good enough to raise the blinds, but cap preflop with hands like AA,KK,QQ & AKs.
Postflop looks ok.

bodnotbod · #9 03-22-2006, 11:10 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2 and Hand 3 I wa son the button trying to steal.
Is it not even worth doing this in a limit game if you have 6 folds in front of you?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm no expert, so I hope that experienced players will correct me where I err.

It's preferable that you try stealing with at least a moderately strong hand. If you get away with it a few times then you can try pushing your luck and stealing with a non-hand.

[ QUOTE ]
I've been reading SSHE. I admit I don't understand all the principles completely but I'm pretty certain it tells you to raise flush draws on the flop...(1) for value as the flush comes in almost 1/3rd of the time and (2) as you may get a free card. I didn't take it there but I should have done...?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you play for a free card then you must take it. You shouldn't bet out if the card misses you.

You can also raise a flush draw on the flop if there are three or more people (including you) in the pot and you can raise without facing any of them with two bets cold; ie, you are last to act, the first player bets and the following players call, then you can raise with some expectation that they'll all call again. This 'pumps the pot' so that if you do hit your flush you get more out of it.

But read your SSHE again and hang around here, post some more hands; some of your plays currently strike me as a little weird [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

MrBlah · #10 03-22-2006, 11:17 AM

Hand 1: Check through on the river. If he has a small pair he isn't going to fold now and if he was on a draw he is not going to call.

Hand 2: You might value bet the river, depending on your read. If villain calls down with a small pp or a high ace, you might bet.

Hand 3: Fold preflop.

Hand 4: I'd play this the same. I wouldn't cap preflop though unless the BB defends a lot against blind steals.