16: I thought this was a fairly standard push

Q.. · #1 11-29-2007, 08:13 AM

I don't understand the topic name - "thought", icm cannot be really thought of felt usually, especially on bubble, just run it in sngpt and this would be pretty minus ev.

eurythmech · #2 11-29-2007, 08:20 AM

Uhm...the reason why good players pushbot well is not because they're fast with SNGWiz during the tournies.

Q.. · #3 11-29-2007, 08:24 AM

I guess its not OP case though? "usually" means before becoming real good at it.
Of-course after analyzing 2k+ hands on bubble you not only think, but know what is good or bad.

eurythmech · #4 11-29-2007, 08:32 AM

Yeah, well...I think you worded it too strongly. "Cannot" is just so off.

loxxii · #5 11-30-2007, 08:02 AM

This is +EV all the way down to 66+,A8+,KQ for the shorties and TT+, AQ+ for the big stack, which I think is very loose for all of them. In game, I expected them to be even tighter than this.

I should have mentioned in the post that the BTN had just made a come back and the SB was waiting for him to bust. The big stack was not horrible, so I was surprised by his call.

I will fold trash hands as the 2nd big stack on the bubble from now on, but my question is, how do we define pwning the bubble?

saddu · #6 11-30-2007, 08:12 AM

i saw spacegravy pushing atc in maaaany of this situation,
maybe becouse he was playng at 60s

Luisgallo · #7 11-30-2007, 08:22 AM

I don't think you can pwn the bubble when you are at risk to bubble yourself.

AQ call is bad but not awful especially if villain had a some history vs you and in the past you pushed ATC in that spot.

Unfortunately push/call ranges applies in our opponents' decision too.

Q.. · #8 11-30-2007, 08:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think you can pwn the bubble when you are at risk to bubble yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty much agree with that, here you can pwn bubble when big stack has acted already and folded - dealer and sb pushes give great +ev spots, he can't do that too much because u are in front of short stacks for him. After some folds from him and pushes from you youll have him covered and can start pushing trash from utg too, to pwn the bubble [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

fanapathy · #9 11-30-2007, 08:59 AM

Reckless shove. TBH I might even spitecall you here with AQ if you're a regular for the reasons above and because you're not supposed to be running the show here.

"This is +EV all the way down to 66+,A8+,KQ for the shorties and TT+, AQ+ for the big stack, which I think is very loose for all of them."

No, it's not loose. On average they call much wider than that. Varies from table to table so it's nice to have a read but with no read on the table, no way in hell this is a shove. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Edit: Someone mentioned something about it being a shove from the button. No. With 10 effective BBs into two stacks on the bubble, I believe even ATo is a fold from button with average ranges. $16 is just one of those levels where idiots wake up with QJ and decide it's the nuts. Oh wait, maybe that's $6.5. No, J2o is the equivalent there.

What I'm saying anyway is that a problem many good winning players are having these days is shoving waaaay too wide from the button. Sure, KT looks like an autoshove sometimes. A2 should be worth going after that pot there or my 56s. No way. Be tight from CO&Button and shove any two from SB is the answer to loads of trouble.