Pushing versus just raising postflop.

[Aquadougs]

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In this situation he would have to have around 170bbs to not push because with smaller stacks any pot sized raise is near allin and committing anyway. Any valueraise should probably be a shove while some weird air bluffs could be smaller.
wtf is SPR ?

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At the moment before any action at flop, or before any action preflop?

[Kala1928]

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Its a matter of how much he would have behind on the turn if you raise smaller than push. If he would have less than 1 turn PSB, generally just push instead.

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if he has less than psb on the turn he is less likely to fold on the turn.

[Aquadougs]

[ QUOTE ]
In this situation he would have to have around 170bbs to not push because with smaller stacks any pot sized raise is near allin and committing anyway. Any valueraise should probably be a shove while some weird air bluffs could be smaller.
wtf is SPR ?

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How big would the SPR (how big the pot is compared to the stacks) at turn be if we had 170bb just after preflop?

If we raises to 1,4 * total pot and he bets standard cbetsize,
then the raise would be 1,4 * (pot before bet + flop bet)
= 1,4 * (28,5 + 21) = 69,8

The size of the pot at turn will then be 2*69,8 + pot before bet
= 2*69,8 + 28,5 = 168,15

The stacksizes at turn will then be (the stacksizes just after flop) - (size of the raise at flop)
= 170 - 69,8 = 100

SPR = 100/168,15 = 0,6

If one of the effective stacs before any action at flop is 170bb in the example above, then one effective stack is just over half the turn pot size.

[ QUOTE ]
Its a matter of how much he would have behind on the turn if you raise smaller than push. If he would have less than 1 turn PSB, generally just push instead.

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How big stacks should we have just after the preflop to raise at flop and have a SPR=1 at turn?


P Pot before flop-bet
S Eff. stacks before action at flop
B Flop-bet = about 0,75 * P
TP Total pot = P + B
R Raisesize = X * TP

TS Turn stacksize
U Turn potsize
Y Stack to pot ration at turn = TS / U
Z Stack to raise ratio = S/R


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P = 1
TP = P + B = 1,75

R = TP*X = 1,75X

U = 2R + P = [2*(1,75X)] + 1 = 3,5X + 1


How big the eff. stacks at the turn (TS) should be compared to (Y) the pot at

turn (U):

If one of the effective stacks (TS) is half the pot, then Y is 0,5.

S = TS + R = (Y*U) + R = Y*(3,5X + 1) + 1,75X = Y(3,5X) + Y + 1,75X

How small the stack (S) should be before we push compared to (Z) our raise (R):

Z = S/R

= [Y(3,5X) + Y + 1,75X] / 1,75X

If we say Y = 1 and X = 1,5, then Z =

[1(3,5[1,5]) + 1 + 1,75(1,5)] / 1,75(1,5) = 3,42


The effective stacks should be 3,4 times the raisesize at flop to make the stacksizes as big as the potsize at turn.
In this case the effective stacksizes should be 3,4*69,8 = 239

Isn't that very much?

Is an "SPR" (how big one effective stack is compared to the pot at turn) 1 really neccessary?