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#1
03-21-2006, 11:14 AM
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Too weak tight with top pair?
OK, this is what I did at the table, but I'm not sure about it in retrospect. At the time I felt I was in bad shape against UTG range, but now I'm wondering whether I was in bad enough shape.
Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, MP calls, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>. Flop: (7.40 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, MP folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG calls. Turn: (5.70 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero folds. Final Pot: 6.70 BB 
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#3
03-21-2006, 11:23 AM
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Re: Too weak tight with top pair?
Know anything about UTG?
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#5
03-21-2006, 11:46 AM
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Re: Too weak tight with top pair?
[ QUOTE ]
I fold there for absolute sure. True [/ QUOTE ] Yeah I agree, but im glad you posted because I didnt realize it until then. What range do you put villan on pf A8+, 99+, KJ+ lets say? But on the turn the range narrows to probably AA, QQ, A8+ (i guess maybe KK, some people call flop in places like this intending to raise turn,and then they raise the turn even if it is terrible for them) but anyway you have 5 outs vs AT, A9, KK and AK, no outs vs AA or QQ or AQ, AJ. Discounting KK to just 0.5 combos, we have 36.5 ways you have 5 outs, there are 24 ways you have 0 outs. So you have 3 outs. That sucks with the odds the pot is giving you, and you cant talk about implied odds since you will make a good second best hand so often. Fold. I would not have seen this without True's comment, i would have said marginal can fold or call. I guess that just signifies how much of a noob I am. -Kai EDIT: oh sorry vs. AJ there are 2 outs. that does not change it much i dont think, it would give you about 3.3 outs on average I guess. Still Fold.
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#6
03-21-2006, 11:51 AM
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Re: Too weak tight with top pair?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I fold there for absolute sure. True [/ QUOTE ] Yeah I agree, but im glad you posted because I didnt realize it until then. What range do you put villan on pf A8+, 99+, KJ+ lets say? But on the turn the range narrows to probably AA, QQ, A8+ (i guess maybe KK, some people call flop in places like this intending to raise turn,and then they raise the turn even if it is terrible for them) but anyway you have 5 outs vs AT, A9, KK and AK, no outs vs AA or QQ or AQ, AJ. Discounting KK to just 0.5 combos, we have 36.5 ways you have 5 outs, there are 24 ways you have 0 outs. So you have 3 outs. That sucks with the odds the pot is giving you, and you cant talk about implied odds since you will make a good second best hand so often. Fold. I would not have seen this without True's comment, i would have said marginal can fold or call. I guess that just signifies how much of a noob I am. -Kai EDIT: oh sorry vs. AJ there are 2 outs. that does not change it much i dont think, it would give you about 3.3 outs on average I guess. Still Fold. [/ QUOTE ] I think this is a good post and perfectly outlines the reasons for folding here. I just think that more often than not he is not bluffing here and his range has you beaten True
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#7
03-21-2006, 11:54 AM
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Re: Too weak tight with top pair?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I fold there for absolute sure. True [/ QUOTE ] Yeah I agree, but im glad you posted because I didnt realize it until then. What range do you put villan on pf A8+, 99+, KJ+ lets say? But on the turn the range narrows to probably AA, QQ, A8+ (i guess maybe KK, some people call flop in places like this intending to raise turn,and then they raise the turn even if it is terrible for them) but anyway you have 5 outs vs AT, A9, KK and AK, no outs vs AA or QQ or AQ, AJ. Discounting KK to just 0.5 combos, we have 36.5 ways you have 5 outs, there are 24 ways you have 0 outs. So you have 3 outs. That sucks with the odds the pot is giving you, and you cant talk about implied odds since you will make a good second best hand so often. Fold. I would not have seen this without True's comment, i would have said marginal can fold or call. I guess that just signifies how much of a noob I am. -Kai EDIT: oh sorry vs. AJ there are 2 outs. that does not change it much i dont think, it would give you about 3.3 outs on average I guess. Still Fold. [/ QUOTE ] I think this is a good post and perfectly outlines the reasons for folding here. I just think that more often than not he is not bluffing here and his range has you beaten True [/ QUOTE ] YES!!!! I finaly post something worthwile. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] -Kai
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#9
03-21-2006, 12:03 PM
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Re: Too weak tight with top pair?
I forgot to post much about UTG, but then I didn't know much about him. 10 hands, stats 28/0/infinity whatever that means.
At first, I couldn't understand why he'd donk bet spiking an ace (instead of going for a check-raise), but thinking about it some more, I guess he had to with the flush draws out there.
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#10
03-21-2006, 12:06 PM
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Re: Too weak tight with top pair?
well he might also think that you will check behind fearing the c/r, if he thinks you're paying attention. I mean the A improves a LOT of his hands. Oh and infinity means that they have not called/checked yet in the hads you have seen them in. Since the aggro factor is calculated as (bets or raises)/(checks or calls) dividing by zero gives him an infinite aggro factor.
-Kai
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