Value & protect bet or value-check turn? 1/2 online, 55 from BTN

[TheHip41]

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check and fold a 6 7 8 T A river and call anything else > bet

IN MY OH

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why? we can easily make him fold a lot of 9-outers if we bet.

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wtf are you talking about?

what hand c/r the flop and c/f the turn?

This is a turn c/r a lot more than it's a defensive bs check.

[Hi5]

Am I the only one that bet-calls this turn in the absence of a stronger read than the one given by our hero?

[Mitke]

So opinion is even more split now..

According to my interpretation, milesdyson is thinking this is a better made hand being tricky or a flop semibluff with a straight draw or an ace often enough that calling the river if the river is an Ace or a card completing a possible straight is not EV+. Everybody folds to a 6 here, naturally.

I gather TheHip is thinking along the same lines.

This guy is pretty loose preflop and I don't think he'll fold on the turn to a single bet too often either.

(I should note that a straight draws like 87,T8,T7 have even more than 9 outs against us. I didn't consider these originally at all...)


Hi5 is bet-calling down this vs. this loose-aggro-tricky player with a hand that has showdown value, I believe.


What do you guys the villain thinks we have? Over(s)/ A-high? Pocket pair? Draw? Does it even matter here? And what hands would he c/r against the second time on turn or fold to a bet?

If he puts us on Ax I don't think he's calling down too often with a small Ax.

[milesdyson]

i fold to a river ace because we'll have Ax a ton here. the problem with betting the turn is that if he did have a hand like JT i just see no reason he would not fire one more time.

[Oink]

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the problem with betting the turn is that if he did have a hand like JT i just see no reason he would not fire one more time.

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Loose preflop 50/10.

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I think he has an A here a lot. I also think its a mistake to assume he is capable of thinking.

If you check because you think he will sexy with AA or KK or whatever you dnt give up a lot by betting compared to checking.

Missing value against Ax or handing out free cards is a mistake tho IMO

[milesdyson]

c/r Ax and check call down turn and river? really who does that?

did you miss that the guy just called in the BB or what? i'm not worried about AA/KK at all.

i think you're gonna get c/red off the best hand a small % of the time, and at least every time you get c/red by better hands you're passing up on 2 outs.

to be honest, i think his most likely hands are 92s and 22.

[Oink]

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c/r Ax and check call down turn and river? really who does that?


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??

Thats my point. I dont think he does. I want to valuebet those twice

[milesdyson]

i don't get it [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

you said missing value vs Ax is a mistake. i'm saying i think that's a rare play for Ax to make. you now say you don't think he makes this play with Ax.

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[Oink]

I misread your reply

Disregard my retarded rambling

I do believe he has Ax here often enough tho. I know it doesnt make sense. But neither does playing 50/10

[rzk]

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check and fold a 6 7 8 T A river and call anything else > bet

IN MY OH

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why? we can easily make him fold a lot of 9-outers if we bet.

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wtf are you talking about?

what hand c/r the flop and c/f the turn?

This is a turn c/r a lot more than it's a defensive bs check.

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lol, by the time i made my second post i had already forgotten the action. of course he'll rarely fold (though i'd still give it at least 10% as he may have been fooling around with air). but given a choice of putting in one bet now and folding to a check-raise and putting it on the river, i think putting it in now is better. yes, you do give up your shot at 2 outs if he c/r's, but you could be drawing dead if he has 66 or 92 anyway. instead you have a chance of valuebetting his A hi, lower pp, and charging his air and all kinds of gutshot and open-ended straight draws which have a huge number of outs against you.