typical spot but not easy answer 11$ 1 rebuy 1 add on

[offmandh]

yea this is kinda weird in a R/A but i dont see why you cant just call on the flop and then see what happens on the turn. if he makes another bigger bet on the turn, what could he really be double barelling with?

[KoreanBuffet]

First I think flat call PF is fine, this is a good flop and I would definitely want to raise the PF aggressor here. I flat call could induce a double barrel but I don't want to give a free overcard that could beat us and flat calling still doesn't narrow his hand range for us. Here he is really on any two without reads. If we raise, he calls and then double barrels we have to reconsider especially considering what card peels on fourth. If we are 3 bet all in I think we have to call given the BI level readless. And if he calls a flop raise I am almost always checking for pot control on the turn when checked to.

Basically I want to raise him here to either take it down or take control of the hand so that I can control the size of the pot.

[Coz]

[ QUOTE ]
First I think flat call PF is fine, this is a good flop and I would definitely want to raise the PF aggressor here. I flat call could induce a double barrel but I don't want to give a free overcard that could beat us and flat calling still doesn't narrow his hand range for us. Here he is really on any two without reads. If we raise, he calls and then double barrels we have to reconsider especially considering what card peels on fourth. If we are 3 bet all in I think we have to call given the BI level readless. And if he calls a flop raise I am almost always checking for pot control on the turn when checked to.

Basically I want to raise him here to either take it down or take control of the hand so that I can control the size of the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think raising preflop puts us in a good position to take it down pre, and makes stealing a pot like this alot eaiser. I agree though, calling isn't a very good play, too many cards could come on turn that will scare us and induce a double barrel.

[Jesuitical]

You're committed to the pot if you raise a believable amount, so you have to be WELL ahead of his range to raise at all, b/c he's very rarely folding better and you're very rarely getting value out of worse. Assuming this, the pot is just not large enough to give you enough chips to compensate for when you're crushed. Keep in mind he's betting into two callers here, and that even micro/SS players often aren't going to give people credit for a hand here.

If he double-barrels light, a call gets additional value out of hands you beat on the turn (with the intention of calling the turn most of the time) and therefore makes playing this hand for your whole stack somewhat more lucrative. Though this wouldn't seem to matter without reads, I think if you want to play this for your whole stack you might risk him drawing out on you on the turn to get some additional value out of a bluff.

I usually fold b/c I can't figure out a clear way that I can play the situation profitably (I DON'T KNOW WHERE I'M AT). Actually, it's interesting to consider the option of raising small and then folding to a raise if he really never ships it in with worse. Of course, a small raise may induce a bluff -- but that just makes it a more viable option than a shove for trying to get more value on the flop.

Honestly, I don't know what to tell you [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Jesuitical]

On second thought, I probably didn't give enough credence to the possibility that villain raised 5-4 or 6-5 more than a 100 BBs deep... like I said before, I really have no idea what the best play is here. Sorry.

[Marduk]

flatting is perfect pf, now just fold to his flop bet.

people are thinking way too much about absolute hand strength (overpair) vs relative hand strength (what you beat in his range, ie nothing). take a look at villain's line so far in the hand. he 4x'd it from fairly early position and makes an almost psb into 2 players. 764 can hit a lot of hands in people's flatting ranges so for him to play his hand like this shows that he really likes his hand and is willing to go with it.

raising this flop "to see where you're at" is super spewy because he basically folds every hand you beat and shoves when he has you crushed, which is like every time. it's doubtful a random villain would play AK/AQ this way, so this leaves pretty much one hand you beat in this spot (88), and that's only if he is willing to put it in with that hand, which he might not. what you beat is such a small percent of his range that both information raising and raising to get it in are terrible.

[hagbard celine]

[ QUOTE ]

it's doubtful a random villain would play AK/AQ this way, so this leaves pretty much one hand you beat in this spot (88), and that's only if he is willing to put it in with that hand, which he might not.

[/ QUOTE ]

You think so? I definitely see people playing AK, AQ, etc like this.

I don't really like raising, as it does commit us to the hand, when Villain could certainly have a bigger pair than ours.

However, in position I don't mind floating him on this flop to see how he plays the turn.

[SengioKang]

every time i see 9/9... i start saying "go sengio, it's your birthday, spewtember 9th... what a good day"

like i said, i'm much more apt to get stacked w/ 9's than JJ or AK (even tho i get stacked when called down w/ AK all the time)

anyways... in position, i like putting some pressure on preflop w/ 99. out of position, it's a classic helmuth play, limp/or/raise reraise fold...
make him RR you and see if his 4 bet really meant anything or if he's just full of crap.
i don't like the line of raising to 1000 like every other spewy folk says. it commits too much money to the hand and practically commits you to calling a 3bet all-in from him cuz u'll really be getting 2/1. i like a number more of like 500 to 700 straight (it's right in the 3bet+2limpers bet range). it shows him you're serious and puts him in an awkward spot cuz he's got MP2 to worry about as well. it's not squeezing if you really have a hand. and it also lets you get away 3-500 cheaper if he really has AA and reraises.

it also lets you probe or cbet the flop for 700 if he checks and lets you get 2 bets in proverbially for the price of what most people would make their PF raise.

not like nobody's ever seen runner 58 come to crack KK anyways...

i think preflop it's either AK, KQ or some med pair that just hit him hard. but if it's 55 u're way ahead and have an openend redraw if he spikes his 8

as played flatting pre, i think you have to fold this flop. aggressively played, you just have to push them in and pray.

[offmandh]

sick analysis. definitely agree. unless of course he is a donktard.

[hagbard celine]

wp