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#13
11-14-2007, 09:17 AM
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Re: rate this bluff?
I'm not sure why you guys don't bet the flop with a 9. We often have the best hand, the combined number of outs against us is likely to be big and we're not likely to get check/raised by a worse hand. I agree we will not get called by worse too often, but that doesn't matter too much during these circumstances. Checking the flop is buying a ticket to get pwnd on later streets, whether or not we have the best on flop imo.
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#14
11-14-2007, 09:21 AM
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Re: rate this bluff?
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure why you guys don't bet the flop with a 9. We often have the best hand, the combined number of outs against us is likely to be big and we're not likely to get check/raised by a worse hand. I agree we will not get called by worse too often, but that doesn't matter too much during these circumstances. Checking the flop is buying a ticket to get pwnd on later streets, whether or not we have the best on flop imo. [/ QUOTE ] And so, if we assume that most people would bet a 9 on the flop, repping one on the turn is bad - right? And there are like no other hands that would check this flop and raise this turn... yeah I just dont buy it.
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#15
11-14-2007, 09:22 AM
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Re: rate this bluff?
as played, i really don't like the turn raise, because sb is actually gonna have a really strong hand here sometimes, and you're just robbing yourself when that's the case. i think you get looked up light on the river a lot too.
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#16
11-14-2007, 09:25 AM
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Re: rate this bluff?
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure why you guys don't bet the flop with a 9. We often have the best hand, the combined number of outs against us is likely to be big and we're not likely to get check/raised by a worse hand. I agree we will not get called by worse too often, but that doesn't matter too much during these circumstances. Checking the flop is buying a ticket to get pwnd on later streets, whether or not we have the best on flop imo. [/ QUOTE ]This flop generally connects in various ways with a lot of hands that call preflop raises. If we get a straggler a lot of turns make it difficult to play a second or third pair, even in position, because the pot will be getting big but we still won't want to give free cards, even in position. At some point pot control will become an issue and we'll need to slow down, and there's a case for doing that while the pot is still small. Checking the flop lets us see what comes on the turn, and also how the two players before us respond to that. Now don't get me wrong, I bet a 9 here more often than not, but for me personally, I check behind with second pair enough that if I take Hero's line a 9 will definitely be plausible.
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#17
11-14-2007, 09:38 AM
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Re: rate this bluff?
[ QUOTE ]
If we get a straggler a lot of turns make it difficult to play a second or third pair, even in position, because the pot will be getting big but we still won't want to give free cards, even in position. At some point pot control will become an issue and we'll need to slow down, and there's a case for doing that while the pot is still small. Checking the flop lets us see what comes on the turn, and also how the two players before us respond to that. [/ QUOTE ] I prefer bet flop/check turn to check flop/bet turn because: 1. Often we'll just take it down, sure those times we were ahead, but villain's combined number of outs were probably pretty high. 2. We're giving away our c-bet and we can't take any heat on the turn if we check the flop. So when we were ahead on the flop we'll still lose the pot on the turn often, either by getting outdrawn or by getting bluffed. 3. If the turn is J or higher we can't bet the turn even if we check the flop, so on 16 turn cards we'll be giving two players 2 freecards, instead of just betting the flop and taking it down (which I think we'll do quite often). 4. Giving a freecard on the turn isn't as bad as on the flop, because on the turn we're most often only giving one player a freecard.
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#18
11-14-2007, 09:39 AM
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Re: rate this bluff?
7.5
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#19
11-14-2007, 09:55 AM
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Re: rate this bluff?
What are you putting Villain on?
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#20
11-14-2007, 09:57 AM
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Re: rate this bluff?
Nick, I don't agree with all your assumptions, but can I just emphasise that there are obviously certain advantages to c-betting the flop here. In fact, it's a pretty good time to do it. I was just saying that there are reasons why you might not, and I certainly don't do it every time in this spot.
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