Two pair on turn but poss flush

[bosh]

Hand is from early in session so no real reads apart from villian seems fairly laggy but not retarded.

Full Tilt Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $1/$2
5 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, CO calls, Button folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (8SB, 4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">CO raises</font>, 2 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6BB, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">CO bets</font>,

Anyone raise here? What about if he 3bets?

[NinaWilliams]

Im raising. AQ should be 3 betting pf and draws shouldnt be raising the flop. His most likely hand is 1 pair. If he 3 bets you have an easy call with 4 clean outs.

[Absolution]

[ QUOTE ]
Im raising. AQ should be 3 betting pf and draws shouldnt be raising the flop. His most likely hand is 1 pair. If he 3 bets you have an easy call with 4 clean outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that it's a raise, but I would be careful when saying that internet poker opponents shouldn't do something. I see draws raise this board all of the time. In fact, I would say it's not a horrible play.

[istewart]

Don't think it's a raise myself. A4/AJ/AQ/flushes are all in his range imo, and when he has a bare ace we have to dodge a bunch of cards (obviously even more if he has like As7d).

[inferno]

I like a donk turn here that way you arent scared of getting 3bet or giving him a free card

[thrasher789]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Im raising. AQ should be 3 betting pf and draws shouldnt be raising the flop. His most likely hand is 1 pair. If he 3 bets you have an easy call with 4 clean outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that it's a raise, but I would be careful when saying that internet poker opponents shouldn't do something. I see draws raise this board all of the time. In fact, I would say it's not a horrible play.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see players at 1/2 LHE fulltilt cap with any open ended or flush draw all the time on the flop and even the turn, heads up, multiway, whatever, so raising a draw here is certainly not out of the ordinary and if I bet out on the turn and got raised I would almost certainly expect to be paying off a flush if I didn't fold, mostly becuase anyone with a set, big Ace, or two pair here would be scared of the flush and call you down. (though rarely I see other lines taken)

I think this situation is going to be fairly read dependant and if you've been playing with him for awhile put him on a hand. If he's a maniac I would probably just call down here, if he's tight or plays alot of suited connecters in this exact way I'd be inclined to fold here to be honest becuse if you are way behind you have very few outs and even if you think you fill up he might still have you beat.

edit: I failed to look at the PF action, so some of what I said doens't make any sense, but most of it is still fairly accurate but I would definatly just call down and get rid of the risk of getting put off the best hand or paying way to much when I'm beat.

[bosh]

Thanks for you replies. In the end i raised and he insta 3bet me and while he is quite aggressive i dont see turn 3 bets with less than 2pair so i folded. Getting 8 to 1 to call i could have called if all of my outs were clean and im pretty sure he would have 3 bet pre with aq but might have cc with aj so im not sure.

[Tryptamean]

I donk/call down here. You cant rely on him to bet and getting 3bet blows. Sometimes he will raise your donkbet with Ax also because ppl have an irrational dislike of donk bets.

[Tryptamean]

Oh yeah, if I did c/r the turn and get 3 bet I would call down 100% vs an unknown

[thepizzlefosho]

I think donk call down is the way to go. Your hand is worth 2BB on the turn, but probably not 3. If you get 3-bet you are unlikely to be ahead, and you may not even have 4 outs.

as played I would never fold the turn. Sure you may not have 4 clean outs, but the combination of the following is enough to at least call the turn 1) you might be ahead 2) it is valuable to know what unknowns are CCing pf and raising on the flop with and 3) when you hit one of your outs you are likely to get at least 2BB (giving you almost enough implied odds).