$5.50 - Do you think this re-steal attempt was too risky?

[Jon_AK]

I played this hand and thought I did a good job but other people don't think so much... I just couldn't give this guy any credit (even though I didn't have any reads on him)

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t1600 (8 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button (t27681)
SB (t48477)
Jon_AK (t87069)
UTG (t24368)
UTG+1 (t30279)
MP1 (t21464)
MP2 (t11950)
CO (t16700)

Preflop: Jon_AK is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">6 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to t4800</font>, Jon_AK calls t3200.

Flop: (t9050) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets t6500</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Jon_AK raises to t16000</font>

[dkgojackets]

hmmm, I kinda like it. Unlikely that he hit, and just calling would be a third of his stack.

[M1cKmAcK]

Some people cant fold 77 or A6 here. Problem is unless you've been at his table for awhile you don't know what he showsdown in this spot. Obv if he calls it's time to count your losses and shut down. I fold this pre b/c you don't have any reads on him. Kind of a no-sense gamble isn't it?

[DeuceSeven]

First I'd like a read before I start making plays. If you plan on taking this away, I like a call on the flop then if he checks the turn you can fire out 8k, this is a cheaper alternative to expending 16k with your flop raise.

[ChipSpeak]

Why are we making this play without reads, we just put 20k of our stack in with nothing, no reads and no hand?
fold this pre, if you want to make a play, repop pre flop we could have repopped (with a read preferrably) for 12-13k and found out how much he liked this hand, our stack should keep him in check.
As played, I agree with Deuce, if you want to continue here, float him and flat call that flop, he'll show you how much he likes his hand on the turn.

[RonFezBuddy]

I like the post-flop steal attempt (can you get away from a 3-bet here?). This board looks harmless and you can fold to a shove.

However, I don't really like the pre-flop call. Either fold or raise. J4 is so hard to play post-flop unless you hit trips or two pair that you could be putting a lot of chips with a marginal flop. I think pre-flop fold &gt;&gt; raise &gt;&gt; call.

[RonFezBuddy]

[ QUOTE ]
First I'd like a read before I start making plays. If you plan on taking this away, I like a call on the flop then if he checks the turn you can fire out 8k, this is a cheaper alternative to expending 16k with your flop raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

But isn't this only saving him 2k while giving the opponent a chance to hit an overcard which is likely in his range? If an A, K or Q hits the turn there's a good chance he's screwed and will be putting chips in way behind. By making a move here at least, he can shut down the likely continuation bet before it turns into a real hand.

[DeuceSeven]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
First I'd like a read before I start making plays. If you plan on taking this away, I like a call on the flop then if he checks the turn you can fire out 8k, this is a cheaper alternative to expending 16k with your flop raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

But isn't this only saving him 2k while giving the opponent a chance to hit an overcard which is likely in his range? If an A, K or Q hits the turn there's a good chance he's screwed and will be putting chips in way behind. By making a move here at least, he can shut down the likely continuation bet before it turns into a real hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also another way of thinking is if villain has 2 overs he only has 6 outs to make a pair. So most villains will check the turn unimproved with a non pair hand, then you can take it away. If villain has a hand or improves and leads out on the turn you don't waste that extra money raising the flop. I prefer floating as it commits less chips.