Marginal Pair vs loose aggressive player

DavidC · #1 11-12-2007, 07:06 AM

The guy's new to the table, I have a big chip stack. He's loose and aggressive so far but I don't think I've gotten into any pots with him yet.

Full Tilt Poker $0.50/$1 Limit Hold'em - 6 players
Hand Converter Tool from DeucesCracked.com

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG folds, MP folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB raises, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.00 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.00 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB calls.

River: (7.00 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, planning on calling if raised.

Niediam · #2 11-12-2007, 07:15 AM

I normally raise on the flop (partially done because I'm raising weak hands like gushots and ace high also) but your line is fine.

rhayder · #3 11-12-2007, 11:37 AM

Grunch:

Fold preflop this is a trap hand.. you have no straight or
flush possibilities and will end up with either top pair and weak kicker or small pair that rarely can win alone.

After the flop raise or fold.. because it is cheaper to raise the flop than the turn. If he bets the turn I fold because there are to many cards that he could hit to beat your pair.

Edit:
Even if the player is aggressive I will give him this hand. I think it pays more to wait for a monster hand that you can use to use the aggressors aggression against him.

KitCloudkicker · #4 11-12-2007, 11:42 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Grunch:

Fold preflop this is a trap hand.. you have no straight or flush possibilities and will end up with either top pair and weak kicker or small pair that rarely can win alone.

After the flop raise or fold.. because it is cheaper to raise the flop than the turn. If he bets the turn I fold because there are to many cards that he could hit to beat your pair.

Even if the player is aggressive I will give him this hand. I think it pays more to wait for a monster hand that you can use to use the aggressors aggression against him.

[/ QUOTE ]

i fold pf but its close. i think i would draw the line at Q7o in this spot for mid pair value.

fwiw i think this grunch is very weak-tight thinking and you will get run-over by aggressive stealers. good LAGs are aware of when opponents try to wait for good hands to trap, and against said players dont give them action when they hit. the LAG profits big time from such a strategy from you folding your blinds over and over again.

and no, folding the flop is very bad. it's not "raise or fold.." its "call or raise." folding is not an option.

Niediam · #5 11-12-2007, 12:29 PM

Folding a queen to a SB open raise is very bad unless you know villian very passive preflop.

Here we have a read that he is aggressive.

Easy easy call.

cocktails · #6 11-12-2007, 01:48 PM

Fold preflop. This are these marginal situations u get. Try to defence with a hand u can defence with.

Aaron W. · #7 11-12-2007, 04:17 PM

Q5o is an okay defense, but it's on the low low low end as you're really playing Q-high poker. If you pair your 5, it will often be 4th or 5th pair by the river. It's blind defense, not heads up action, so you don't need to defend quite as liberally.

I wouldn't bet the river in this case, but it's not a bad bet. The variable here is how often he will pay off with A-high. I don't think it's high enough against an unknown, but you've got to use your own experience on this.

bellatrix · #8 11-12-2007, 04:31 PM

David, I think there is no correct line here as it is totally opponent dependent. For example the flop call and turn raise I do on a lot of people, when they know I peel the flop weak, but not always. The value bet on the river depends if you can get a hand like A-high to call, so it's very slim.

If you have no reads on opponent, except that he's aggro (like you said you do), then call him down. No point in battling senseless aggression with senseless aggression. I was listening to an interview with Hoss the other day and he was talking about HU play. He said something to the tone, that one of the biggest mistakes people even at high levels to are that 3rd to 5th pair are good hands to catch people bluffing, so they are CALLING hands, not raising hands, yet he constantly encounters people betting those low pairs.

Anyway, I would [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] it if you calmly called opponent down with 4th pair. He'd probably peg you as the biggest fish calling station. LOL: "He called me down with Q5!" But that's just my take.