Blackwater: Did anyone hear this???

[DblBarrelJ]

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no site or paper is inaccurate 100% of the time

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So much for Blackwater, I guess!

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Blackwater Investigation Unjust

Media Intentionally Paints Negative Portrait Of Security Firm

Trigger-Happy Cowboys save Polish ambassador

Indeed MidGe. The media is critical of Blackwater 100% of the time.

[The once and future king]

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no site or paper is inaccurate 100% of the time

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So much for Blackwater, I guess!

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Blackwater Investigation Unjust

Media Intentionally Paints Negative Portrait Of Security Firm

Trigger-Happy Cowboys save Polish ambassador

Indeed MidGe. The media is critical of Blackwater 100% of the time.

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These links are worthless. Two are just opinion pieces and one just links to article about a totally different incident.

As for who took the statements, that is irrelevant, what is important is who made the judgments. So far in all the links posted in this thread that is indicated as being the State Department.

You have done all this research but cant provide one link to a source even remotely backing your claims. Please provide link to factual evidence that Blackwater did nothing wrong. Surely easy for someone who has done as much research as you.

[DblBarrelJ]

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no site or paper is inaccurate 100% of the time

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So much for Blackwater, I guess!

[/ QUOTE ]

Blackwater Investigation Unjust

Media Intentionally Paints Negative Portrait Of Security Firm

Trigger-Happy Cowboys save Polish ambassador

Indeed MidGe. The media is critical of Blackwater 100% of the time.

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These links are worthless. Two are just opinion pieces and one just links to article about a totally different incident.

As for who took the statements, that is irrelevant, what is important is who made the judgments. So far in all the links posted in this thread that is indicated as being the State Department.

You have done all this research but cant provide one link to a source even remotely backing your claims. Please provide link to factual evidence that Blackwater did nothing wrong. Surely easy for someone who has done as much research as you.

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The burden of proof is on the accuser, not the accused.

You provide proof.

[mrick]

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Blackwater Investigation Unjust

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Yeah, right... From your link :

"Applying US standards investigating events in an unknown country currently by the name of Iraq where law and order is non-existent makes any investigation of Blackwater wholly unfair and unjust."

In other words, this guy is saying that Blackwater should be investigated under no law whatsoever, or better yet ..not be investigated at all!

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Trigger-Happy Cowboys save Polish ambassador

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Cliff notes: the Polish ambassador's convoy is ambushed, the Polish bodyguards return fire and fight it out, one Polish bodyguard is actually killed, ambassador is saved, event is over. Then, Blackwater helicopters are called transport everyone away. As your link says, "Blackwater was not involved in protecting the Polish convoy." So the title of the article is misleading. What was your point again?

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Media Intentionally Paints Negative Portrait Of Security Firm

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Basically, this National Review guy is arguing that Blackwater are patriots and should be left alone! Sample quote : "...the antiwar Left, most vocally supported by liberal Democrats in the House and Senate, wanted to score political points, [so] they constantly accused Blackwater of being unaccountable and above the law."

He denies that Blackwater are above the law!!? Here's the relevant text from the decree signed 6/27/04 by L. Paul Bremer, Administrator, Coalition Provisional Authority, Iraq, giving folks like the Blackwater gangsters full immunity :

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Section 4
Contractors
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2) Contractors shall not be subject to Iraqi laws or regulations in matters relating to the terms and conditions of their Contracts, including licensing and registering employees, businesses and corporations; provided, however, that Contractors shall comply with such applicable licensing and registration laws and regulations if engaging in business or transactions in Iraq other than Contracts. Notwithstanding any provisions in this Order, Private Security Companies and their employees operating in Iraq must comply with all CPA Orders, Regulations, Memoranda, and any implementing instructions or regulations governing the existence and activities of Private Security Companies in Iraq, including registration and licensing of weapons and firearms.
...
3) Contractors shall be immune from Iraqi legal process with respect to acts performed by them pursuant to the terms and conditions of a Contract or any sub-contract thereto.

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The decree is still in force.

[MidGe]

Great post, well researched and quoted, mrick.

Be ready for some flack from those are trying to suppress this information and replace it with the PR stuff they get from Blackwater! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[DblBarrelJ]

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Cliff notes: the Polish ambassador's convoy is ambushed, the Polish bodyguards return fire and fight it out, one Polish bodyguard is actually killed, ambassador is saved, event is over. Then, Blackwater helicopters are called transport everyone away. As your link says, "Blackwater was not involved in protecting the Polish convoy." So the title of the article is misleading. What was your point again?

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That Blackwater was called in and completed the mission after the Polish bodyguards failed miserably.


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Basically, this National Review guy is arguing that Blackwater are patriots and should be left alone! Sample quote : "...the antiwar Left, most vocally supported by liberal Democrats in the House and Senate, wanted to score political points, [so] they constantly accused Blackwater of being unaccountable and above the law."

He denies that Blackwater are above the law!!?

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No, he doesn't. Even Prince has publicly stated that Blackwater agents shouldn't be above the law. And if they're above the law, why is the FBI investigating them presently?

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Here's the relevant text from the decree signed 6/27/04 by L. Paul Bremer, Administrator, Coalition Provisional Authority, Iraq, giving folks like the Blackwater gangsters full immunity :

[ QUOTE ]
Section 4
Contractors
...
2) Contractors shall not be subject to Iraqi laws or regulations in matters relating to the terms and conditions of their Contracts, including licensing and registering employees, businesses and corporations; provided, however, that Contractors shall comply with such applicable licensing and registration laws and regulations if engaging in business or transactions in Iraq other than Contracts. Notwithstanding any provisions in this Order, Private Security Companies and their employees operating in Iraq must comply with all CPA Orders, Regulations, Memoranda, and any implementing instructions or regulations governing the existence and activities of Private Security Companies in Iraq, including registration and licensing of weapons and firearms.
...
3) Contractors shall be immune from Iraqi legal process with respect to acts performed by them pursuant to the terms and conditions of a Contract or any sub-contract thereto.

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The decree is still in force.

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I highlighted the important parts. To answer my own question, so you don't have to make up BS, they are not, nor have they ever been, immune from US law. Iraqi law, yes. US law, no.

[MidGe]

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I highlighted the important parts. To answer my own question, so you don't have to make up BS, they are not, nor have they ever been, immune from US law. Iraqi law, yes. US law, no.

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So not immune to US law, but they are immune to the sovereign country's laws the US is supposedly liberating??? Are you for real?

[tame_deuces]

This isn't the big problem you make it out to be Midge.

However,

While this system seems to be working for ordinary military personnel, in that the sense that things get investigated and transgressors punished by their own parent nation's laws(its not perfect, but things rarely are) there have been some unfortunate specific incidents with immunity granted to Blackwater personnel.

Like I have said before I'm in not in the anti or pro camp, I am however always of the opinion that seemingly weird practices should be questioned. And these qualifiy.

[NewTeaBag]

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This isn't the big problem you make it out to be Midge.

However,

While this system seems to be working for ordinary military personnel, in that the sense that things get investigated and transgressors punished by their own parent nation's laws(its not perfect, but things rarely are) there have been some unfortunate specific incidents with immunity granted to Blackwater personnel.

Like I have said before I'm in not in the anti or pro camp, I am however always of the opinion that seemingly weird practices should be questioned. And these qualifiy.

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I'd be very interested to know several things.

1) Has ANY security contractor been charged in The US Courts for a crime comitted as a contractor?

2) What jurisdiction do The US Federal Courts hold over alleged crimes committed outside the US or it's territories? Unlike uniformed soldiers, sailors, and marines which are subject to the UCMJ for the time of the service, regardless of location, these contractors remain private citizens conducting services outside the US. Should one of them be charged, would it not be a simple issue for a competent lawyer to get the charges dismissed based on lack of jurisdiction?

[DblBarrelJ]

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I'd be very interested to know several things.

1) Has ANY security contractor been charged in The US Courts for a crime comitted as a contractor?

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No, but then, there has never been a need for one. Once the State investigation clears the agent, they are returned to work.

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2) What jurisdiction do The US Federal Courts hold over alleged crimes committed outside the US or it's territories? Unlike uniformed soldiers, sailors, and marines which are subject to the UCMJ for the time of the service, regardless of location, these contractors remain private citizens conducting services outside the US. Should one of them be charged, would it not be a simple issue for a competent lawyer to get the charges dismissed based on lack of jurisdiction?

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Possibly. The difference in myself and many people like MidGe is that I am interested in the truth, not quick, surefire ways to gain the easist, worst possible indictment.