How do I deal with these guys?

sfrigged · #1 11-07-2007, 10:50 PM

First of all, sorry for the long post. Feel free to skip the examples.

I had a really bad day today (well, a bad last few days really) and went to look over some of my big losing hands. Besides a couple of donk plays, I found that all of them were against one type of opponent.

Namely, those who call all of my PF raises and cbets in position. They usually have really low flop AF but larger turn/river AF and just love to bet out when checked to. I'm talking about 70+ VPIP types at the 25 NL level.

Lately as soon as I recognize these players, I stop cbetting them when I miss. I'm not psychic and they could literally have any two cards and will call regardless.

The problem of course is that I can't afford to just give up a PF raise every time I miss, especially when running bad, and I don't see a way around it. Besides not sitting to their right, anyway.

The other problem is that these guys play anything and I can't put them on a range. I also feel that because they call so often on the flop I shouldn't give them too much credit for a hand, but that is when it ends up really hurting me.

Some examples. The first one, villain is 85/22/.6 (1.5/2.6 Turn/River AF).

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB ($31.70)
BB ($25)
UTG ($35.05)
MP ($17.70)
Hero ($29.75)
Button ($17.40)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises to $1, Button calls $1, 2 folds.

Flop: ($2.35) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $1.5, Button calls $1.50.
I should have bet more here, I know

Turn: ($5.35) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $4, Button raises to $14.9,

I raised more than normal here because I was OOP. He had only been at the table for 15 hands so I wasn't sure about this guy at the time, but he is 93/15/.5

In this hand I thought a big part of his range was pocket pairs and two barreled, but on reflection it could have been anything.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP ($21.95)
Button ($30.50)
Hero ($48.50)
BB ($12.20)
UTG ($18.70)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.25, 2 folds, Hero raises to $1.75, 1 fold, UTG calls $1.50.

Flop: ($3.75) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $3, UTG calls $3.

Turn: ($9.75) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

Then there's this guy who is a bit different. He sits directly to my left and 3bets me every other time, and has shown down premium hands like KJs multiple times.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($53.55)
SB ($5.80)
BB ($13.45)
UTG ($63)
Hero ($30.45)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises to $1, Button raises to $3, 2 folds, Hero calls $2.

Flop: ($6.35) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $5, Button raises to $15,

I'm just kind of hoping for some guidelines in playing with these villains. I feel very comfortable and +ev playing against more normal players, but these players really frustrate me.

Thank you.

bighead9 · #2 11-07-2007, 11:02 PM

value bet as liberally as you can when ur heads-up - i.e. any pair, maybe even ace-high in some cases. fire 2nd barrels too when you think they are calling light.

JimboNYY24 · #3 11-07-2007, 11:07 PM

Hand 1 I just sick it in (call). Hand 2 seems pretty atrocious to bet/fold against that guy. Check/raise or check/call just seem so much better with him 3 betting you preflop often. Or better yet...get up and sit to his left or find a new table.

Lego05 · #4 11-08-2007, 01:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]
and has shown down premium hands like KJs multiple times.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? KJ's not a premium hand.

How to beat these guys:

VALUE BET VALUE BET VALUE BET VALUE BET
VALUE BET VALUE BET VALUE BET VALUE BET
VALUE BET VALUE BET VALUE BET VALUE BET
VALUE BET VALUE BET VALUE BET VALUE BET
VALUE BET VALUE BET VALUE BET VALUE BET
VALUE BET VALUE BET VALUE BET VALUE BET
VALUE BET VALUE BET VALUE BET VALUE BET

Jw513 · #5 11-08-2007, 01:57 AM

Just tighten up and be patient. and VB of course whenever possible.