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#121
11-07-2007, 08:29 PM
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Re: Charles Manson?......Er Yeah Right...Try Again...
[ QUOTE ]
Israeli pilot: I circled the ship twice slowly and saw no flag of any kind. All Liberty survivors: There was a flag flying that day same as always, easily visible in what was perfect weather from that distance. [/ QUOTE ] Again you are unpersuasive. I think it was very likely a flag was flying on this ship. I think it is very likely that a pilot flying 500 mph in a jet while trying to maintain altitude over the ocean did not see the flag. These are not mutually exclusive events. Perhaps if the flag was 20 feet x 35 feet flying on a 200 ft high mast then you would have a point. A 4x6 ft flag is a TINY piece of cloth when compared to the size of a large ship... 
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#122
11-07-2007, 08:34 PM
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Re: Charles Manson?......Er Yeah Right...Try Again...
Yes and friendly fire incidents never happen in combat...
How do I know? Because a carreer CIA/NSA person says it is impossible.... [ QUOTE ] Frankly, it is readily apparent that no motive would ever be acceptable to you, [/ QUOTE ] Oh? I accept the Lavon affair to be true. The Israelis had a rational (and quite correct) motive to keep the Suez canal from falling into Arab hands. You can not provide a rational motive for the Liberty attack ....other than this incident was a terrible accident. If Israeli wanted this ship sunk, they would have carried anti-ship bombs and not AP ammunition.
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#123
11-07-2007, 08:37 PM
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Re: You Have Made My Point....
[ QUOTE ]
*****The idiot that wrote this knows intelligence gathering from ships as he knows about fly crap. A ship like this does not have magic abilities to see these types of activities. This half-ass hypothesis might for the military ignorant which seems to be most of the conspiracy theorists in this post. [/ QUOTE ] oh I see, you don't understand about radio traffic and interceptioning transmissions and stuff like that, stuff that this ship was specifically designed for. I see why you are having such trouble now. In any case, while *you* don't find any of the motives plausible, *experts* at CIA/NSA, etc. were unanimous that the attack was deliberate. I think you lose this one.
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#124
11-07-2007, 08:48 PM
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Re: You Have Made My Point....
[ QUOTE ]
oh I see, you don't understand about radio traffic and interceptioning transmissions and stuff like that, stuff that this ship was specifically designed for. I see why you are having such trouble now. [/ QUOTE ] Yes....I know nothing about radio transmissions and the interceptions of radio transmissions other than what I learned in the US Army as a 1st Lt. And the technology I used was light years ahead of the crap on the USS Liberty.
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#125
11-07-2007, 08:54 PM
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Re: You Have Made My Point....
Felix,
Why do you think that everyone in the CIA/NSA/LBJ White House, as well as all of the Liberty survivors, have always been convinced that it was a premeditated, deliberate attack? Are they all crazed conspiracy theorists?
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#126
11-07-2007, 08:57 PM
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Re: You Have Made My Point....
[ QUOTE ]
Yes....I know nothing about radio transmissions and the interceptions of radio transmissions other than what I learned in the US Army as a 1st Lt. And the technology I used was light years ahead of the crap on the USS Liberty. [/ QUOTE ] well you realize the liberty was a signal intercept ship, right?
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#127
11-08-2007, 12:14 AM
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Re: You Have Made My Point....
[ QUOTE ]
Felix, Why do you think that everyone in the CIA/NSA/LBJ White House, as well as all of the Liberty survivors, have always been convinced that it was a premeditated, deliberate attack? Are they all crazed conspiracy theorists? [/ QUOTE ] Everyone? Everyone in the CIA...Mmmmmmm... Everyone in the NSA. Wow! No dissenters! Everyone in the White House! You are over reaching. Obviously not everyone believes this nonsense. I'm sure LBJ used his full powers with the CIA/NSA chiefs to make sure he did not take the rap for sending this ship unannounced into a warzone. As for the Liberty survivors, of course they are angry. They nearly got killed. I don't blame them for being mad. The fault lies with the White House that ordered the ship into that area without telling the Israelis. It is the White House that wanted to sweep this under the rug so they would not be blamed for their stupidity. If people blame Israel then this was good for the White House because then their own stupidity does not become public. When I was in the military, superior officers would quiz privates to what units were adjacent to them. If a private in my platoon could not answer this question, I got 'gigged'. The purpose was to prevent friendly fire incidents and if an unknown force was encountered in an area where no friendlies were suppose to be....then we had the green light to shoot them up.... In fact it was shoot first and ask questions later since the first to shoot is often the one that survives the fight. This is Warfare 101. It is military elementry school stuff. LBJ was a moron for not communicating the presence of this ship to the Israelis. If there is a cover-up, it is LBJ covering up his own stupidity... The Israeli pilot said he did not see a flag but he knew this was a military ship. No USA ships were in the area so their officers had the green light to blow this ship out of the water whether they saw a flag or not. If the Israelis wanted to sink this ship, they would have carried bombs to put it in the bottom of the Med then the death toll would have been closer to 100%....
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#128
11-08-2007, 12:27 AM
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Re: You Have Made My Point....
[ QUOTE ]
Everyone? Everyone in the CIA...Mmmmmmm... Everyone in the NSA. Wow! No dissenters! Everyone in the White House! You are over reaching. Obviously not everyone believes this nonsense. I'm sure LBJ used his full powers with the CIA/NSA chiefs to make sure he did not take the rap for sending this ship unannounced into a warzone. [/ QUOTE ] seriously, do you guys take a class on how to belittle a point you can't argue against? your right about not including w.h. though, none have ever offered an opinion. and johnson of course ...
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#129
11-08-2007, 03:10 AM
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Yeah....EVERYONE Believes the Attack was Intentional
The ussliberty.org site makes no attempt to report this incident in a measure manner. So lets look at the wiki article on the USS Liberty attack.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident To the people on this forum that claim that EVERYONE in the US Govt claimed that Israel knowingly attacked an allied ship, check out these quotes: "the Naval Court of Inquiry, led by Admiral John McCain, found that the attack was a mistake, not intentional, found that the profiles of US ships "were not readily locatable" for identification purposes and found that the Liberty's "configuration [was] susceptible to confusion with other ships of other nations." [2]" *****So much for eveyone claiming this was a deliberate attack and not a mistake. "They also note that the tense atmosphere of the Six-Day War created the possibility of such mistakes, Israel had accidentally bombed its own tank column the day before on land, and point out that the U.S. government, concerned about such dangers, ordered the Liberty further away from shore the night before the attack.[3] Finally, they note that the United States has several times mistakenly attacked its own and allied forces in so-called friendly fire incidents." *****Mmmmmmmm....Israel attacked their own army. Perhaps this is a conspiracy as well. ******How the USA f***ed Up****** "On June 5, at the start of the war, General Yitzhak Rabin (then IDF Chief of Staff) informed Commander Ernest Carl Castle, the American Naval Attache in Tel Aviv, that Israel would defend its coast with every means at its disposal, including sinking unidentified ships. [2] Gen. Rabin went on to advise that the Americans should either reveal which ships it had in the area, or remove them. Despite this, the United States did not give Israel any information about the Liberty, which was by now in the eastern Mediterranean. (ibid). As war broke out Captain William L. McGonagle of the Liberty immediately asked Vice Admiral William I. Martin at the U.S. 6th Fleet headquarters to send a destroyer to accompany the Liberty and serve as its armed escort and as an auxiliary communications center." "The Navy also faulted a shortage of qualified radio men as a contributing factor to the Liberty's failure to leave the area as ordered. [12]" "On June 4, 1967, the day before the start of the Six-Day War, Israel asked if the United States had any ships in the region[citation needed]. The U.S. said it did not, and United States Ambassador Goldberg announced in the United Nations that the U.S. had no ships within 350 miles (560 km) to 400 miles (640 km), [5]" ******USS Liberty Disobeys Orders Not to Get Too Close***** "On the night of June 7 Washington time, early morning on June 8, 0110Z or 3:10 AM local time, the Pentagon issued an order to Sixth Fleet headquarters to tell the Liberty to come no closer than 100 nautical miles (185 km) to Israel, Syria, or the Sinai coast (Oren, p. 263). [8]" Summary: The USS Liberty failed to obey orders and leave the area. The USA told Israel that it had no ships in the area. Israeli could well have assumed this was a hostile ship. Adm John McCain (the senator's father) found the attack was an accident.
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#130
11-08-2007, 03:18 AM
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Re: Yeah....EVERYONE Believes the Attack was Intentional
[ QUOTE ]
To the people on this forum that claim that EVERYONE in the US Govt claimed that Israel knowingly attacked an allied ship, check out these quotes: [/ QUOTE ] the actual claim is that the cia/nsa all said it was not accident, and the original naval dealee was a political frame job.
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