Let's ask Ron Paul supporters to write letters on our behalf

[TheEngineer]

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I made a donation and joined when they first started up, but have not and will not give anything to what is no more than a letter writing campaigne. Sorry, if they start a group that has real teeth i might once again donate.

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I wasn't going to reply, but I have to reply to points relating to what we're doing here on this forum.

First of all, how is this only a "letter writing campaign"? PPA has done extensive lobbying, especially during the beginning of this year. Look it up.

Our letter writing (2+2 members, PPA, and others) augments this work, and the efforts go hand in hand.

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Without something to back up our pleas I don't understand how you can think a group can effect change. PPA has nothing to offer, not votes or endorements or money. You know as well as i do that to make things happen you have to have something to give back. What is it that PPA offers?

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PPA has 800,000 young, energized voters who aren't aligned as a group with either party. How is that "nothing to offer?" I think you overrate endorsements by a great deal. Perhaps you should have come to D.C. for the Fly-In to see how things are being handled. If you met with John Pappas and D'Amato, I imagine they would have hired you to run PPA, as you clearly have all the answers that they don't. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Also, I think you (and many here) overrate the importance the rest of America places on UIGEA. We have people, but we have to earn the respect of Congress. Even critics of PPA like D$D will vouch for PPA's lobbyists and the lobbying effort.

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When i said noble work by the way i emant it. I do respect your drive in this but I also realize that writing letters that never gets read are a waste of time.

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Too late for that. You already said you have no respect for me.

As to your comment about letters....proof please (opinions doesn't count). My letters to Congress were read. That was confirmed for me when I met with McConnell's staff and when I met with Rep. Geoff Davis' staff. Both staffs kidded me about the volume of letters I wrote, in fact, and both were clearly familiar with what I wrote. Also the book The Lobbyists discusses in detail the importance of letters and phone calls when combined with lobbying. And, our lobbyists told me our letters and phone calls are extremely important.

So, why would you try to tell us to stop writing letters when you have NO IDEA how effective writing is??? It's not good enough that you THINK they aren't read, or that you THINK they are replied to by interns.

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Perhaps you would consider starting a real group with real power. One that can give something back to those that stick their neck out for poker and PPA.

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Why don't you start up such a group? You know...one with REAL POWER. LOL. Seems you know it all and have all the answers. I hope it's successful.

[DeadMoneyDad]

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Even critics of PPA like D$D will vouch for PPA's lobbyists and the lobbying effort.

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While I vouch for the quality of the lobbing effort's people, I am in no way convinced that enough empahisas has been expended in training our own "grassroots" lobbiests.

The PPA has IMO been entirely too dependent on "hired guns."

Lobbiests have their uses and can carry as much of the load as you are willing to pay them to do, but there are a very expensive resource. IMO they should be fully utilized up and until we can fill that void with proven members of the organization.

Too much of the budget has been spent in this direction IMO. I really don't see it changing anytime soon.

IMO the PPA needs to utilize the hired talent to keep the ball moving but also train and motivate our own people.

To some degree it is like a self financed candidate trying to raise money. There is no reason for anyone to really pony up when they know the candidate can and will spend the money.

Unless the PPA can get to the point where its numbers aren't generated from freerolls and really tries to find out how much support it really has besides the industry backers, we will always be behind the curve.

This is where concrete actions speak louder than letters or press releases. This is the main complaint of the majority of non-members. The flip side is of course, are the members even willing or able to step up.

As I've stated this is the great unknown.


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Why don't you start up such a group? You know...one with REAL POWER. LOL. Seems you know it all and have all the answers. I hope it's successful.

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TE, you really have to stop with this scarcastic lashing out. As a valued and respected member of this forum you can do as you personally please. But you are now wearing two hats. Just as no one was satisified with Al supporting Thompson without a pledge from Fred about poker, you can not act this way and when called on it claim some sort of personal immunity.

I am as guilty as anyone, perhaps more of letting my emotions enter into my argurments that I post here. I am well aware of what that may have cost me on a number of levels, but it is a price I am willingly and openly to pay.

As only a member of the PPA, I implore you to attempt to realize that even when you don't mean to, you represent the PPA in every word you type. No it is not fair to ask you to self censor yourself as you as a personal citizen have the right to express yourslef as you please. But the reality is you lost some of those rights when your nomination to the PPA board was ratified.

You responsibilities extend beyond your personal feelings.


D$D

[TheEngineer]

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Even critics of PPA like D$D will vouch for PPA's lobbyists and the lobbying effort.

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While I vouch for the quality of the lobbing effort's people

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That's all I was talking about.


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TE, you really have to stop with this scarcastic lashing out.

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I wasn't being sarcastic. I meant it.

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you can not act this way and when called on it claim some sort of personal immunity.

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I disagree.

[DeadMoneyDad]

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you can not act this way and when called on it claim some sort of personal immunity.

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I disagree.

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I understand that. But every time you post that you are willing to taken on some role as a communication agent between 2+2 and the PPA that has meaning because of your position on the board, that value is diminished when you allow yourself to become overboard in a response to some idiot like me.

There is often no need for it really.

I know you seem to place some merit in the polls you post, but if you look at the trafic in this forum, some many more people lurk but seldom post, the auidence is much more broad that the active posters.

You lable me as a critic of the PPA, which I guess is fair in some respects, but I do not consider myself a critic in the way Mason is or inactive members or even non-members of the PPA.

I do not see myself that way at all. I actually participate in all of the activities and more as a member of the organization.

You seem to see people as either allies or some form of opposition with little margin for the in-between.

In your role as a board member you should be mindful of the perception you project for the PPA.

The problem for the PPA is they (we), can only count something less than one out of thirty self identified poker players as members. Given that a large number of the even published number are soft realistically it is perhaps closer to one in fifty ot sixty.

The PPA because of its history is more netrual in a lot of peoples minds. All of the self identified poker players to some degree agree on the goals of the organization and have high hopes for ultimate sucess. The problem the PPA faces daily is one or proving its worth. Tarring anyone currently involved with that legacy might be unfair, but it is just as unfair to expect peoples opinions to change just because a few changes have been made in less than 3 months.

I really consider myself an active supporter of the PPA.

If you can't see than then perhaps we don't have much to build on.


D$D

[2easy]

Please allay my concerns.

It seems to me that the areas that you harp about ineffectiveness by the PPA, are the same areas that you consider to be your field of expertise.

I try to keep an open mind, thus my asking, but it almost seems as though you are lobbying for employment by over-emphasis of the importance of those areas, to the detriment of acknowledging the value of other areas.

If I am wrong about this, I can accept that.

Just stating how it seems to appear to me.

[DeadMoneyDad]

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Please allay my concerns.

It seems to me that the areas that you harp about ineffectiveness by the PPA, are the same areas that you consider to be your field of expertise.

I try to keep an open mind, thus my asking, but it almost seems as though you are lobbying for employment by over-emphasis of the importance of those areas, to the detriment of acknowledging the value of other areas.

If I am wrong about this, I can accept that.

Just stating how it seems to appear to me.

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Well if I was a lawyer and thought there was a legal issue would you question me offering legal advice?

I speak of the issues I feel most comfortable and knowledgible about. Other issues like taxes, finance and investment I have experience in, but my passion in politics is in grassroots.

So I guess I fully understand your point from a preception point of view.

I'd love to be involved in the PPA, as any time in your life you can find a job you are passionate about and love the work, it is a fun way to spend the time and the idea way to make a living as work is always fun.

I've made tried to make it clear to John and this forum that I will try to offer whatever talents I have to the cause volunteer or otherwise. If it comes off as over the top in my concerns based on my area of expertise, then it is what it is.

What I will not do is in effect train or coach someone else. I've been down that path before as well. Occasionally it works out well, more often than not it doesn't work out.

It is not my intention to continue to harp on this issue.

Given my impression of the potential political timetable, combined with my knowledge of what it takes to build a sucessful grassroots effort, including the history of the PPA and the challenges who ever is tasked with that job that legacy carries, I feel no matter who has to do it they have to start yesterday.

Call it a 24 hour rant if you want.

As I've said a few times, I've been involved in enough campaings to know the feeling too well of wishing you had just one more week. It is a horrible feeling.

I my own a cracked crystal ball, but with each passing day the void is killing me. Too a large degree I don't care who does the job as long as it gets done.

The most useless words IMO would be to say a year from, "I told you so....."


D$D

[TheEngineer]

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Please allay my concerns.

It seems to me that the areas that you harp about ineffectiveness by the PPA, are the same areas that you consider to be your field of expertise.

I try to keep an open mind, thus my asking, but it almost seems as though you are lobbying for employment by over-emphasis of the importance of those areas, to the detriment of acknowledging the value of other areas.

If I am wrong about this, I can accept that.

Just stating how it seems to appear to me.

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Well if I was a lawyer and thought there was a legal issue would you question me offering legal advice?

I speak of the issues I feel most comfortable and knowledgible about. Other issues like taxes, finance and investment I have experience in, but my passion in politics is in grassroots.

So I guess I fully understand your point from a preception point of view.

I'd love to be involved in the PPA, as any time in your life you can find a job you are passionate about and love the work, it is a fun way to spend the time and the idea way to make a living as work is always fun.

I've made tried to make it clear to John and this forum that I will try to offer whatever talents I have to the cause volunteer or otherwise. If it comes off as over the top in my concerns based on my area of expertise, then it is what it is.

What I will not do is in effect train or coach someone else. I've been down that path before as well. Occasionally it works out well, more often than not it doesn't work out.

It is not my intention to continue to harp on this issue.

Given my impression of the potential political timetable, combined with my knowledge of what it takes to build a sucessful grassroots effort, including the history of the PPA and the challenges who ever is tasked with that job that legacy carries, I feel no matter who has to do it they have to start yesterday.

Call it a 24 hour rant if you want.

As I've said a few times, I've been involved in enough campaings to know the feeling too well of wishing you had just one more week. It is a horrible feeling.

I my own a cracked crystal ball, but with each passing day the void is killing me. Too a large degree I don't care who does the job as long as it gets done.

The most useless words IMO would be to say a year from, "I told you so....."


D$D

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D$D,

This is getting very old. The truth of the matter is that PPA reviewed your proposals and simply didn't go with them. You have your ideas of how PPA should be doing things, and they don't always agree. That's all, and you know that.

The thing that makes working with you very challenging is that you won't accept "no" for an answer. You come here to complain about every rejection in multi-paragraph, multi-post, multi-thread rants. And, you don't say (until now, which is why I don't mind mentioning it), "I proposed the following to PPA; they decided other issues took priority and I disagree -- here's why". Rather, you write that PPA is failing because they're not doing x, y, and z, without mentioning that you proposed x, y, and z and were turned down after due consideration. In other words, you make it sound like PPA didn't do x, y, or z because they hadn't considered doing them at all. You then follow that up by explaining at least daily how you've been in D.C. since Washington was a corporal and that you've seen it all and done it all.

The KY election is a perfect example. We were up by 20 points two months ago. We won by 20 points. We spent the right amount and got enough press to do what we wanted to do. That was the plan, and that's what we executed. You had a different plan. You wanted PPA to send you there to organize all the bar leagues across the state (which had little to do with the actual election, by the way), plus a number of other activities. PPA considered it and didn't go with it for a number of reasons relating to priorities. You knew this. So, on election eve, what did you do? You harped about "missed opportunities", while conveniently skipping over the fact that you wanted PPA to hire you to do the plan you laid out in your "missed opportunities" posts. Sorry, but turning down your offer in favor of other priorities is not a "sin of omission"...it's a business decision.

You keep trying to make it personal. I have no problems with you as a person. However, surely you can see how frustrating it can be to many people when they read about their discussions with you on 2+2 the next day, as if you're trying to drum up support.