Newbie requests : Open up your game guide for ssnl

[Burcak]

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there is an incredible knowledge gap, and this isn't filled with reading 200 posts a day, all ssnl digests, making 50 posts asking similar things etc.

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yes it is. Poker is a postflop game, not a preflop game. You learn it by logging a lot of hands, and participating in this forum.

What stakes do you play?

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I totally understand (or think I understand) the point about the importance of postflop compared to the importance of preflop. Then again, I am sure your image, and how you should play your hands postflop, is really a function of how many hands you raised and how bored are the donks in your table of your raising.

If I were to "shove" as recommended in the hand threads, I'd be broke so fast you couldn't believe. When you raise only 13%, your posflop play is very, very different from what is recommended here.

That's why, I don't think you can really improve postflop without changing preflop, what you can do is to adapt a preflop strategy, that will get you in postflop situations where you are comfortable. IE. you must decide how many pots and what kind of pots you want to play, and see if it leads you into "good" postflop situations for you, and if you are capable of playing well in those situations.

(I am a marginal winner in 100NLHE I think (only 20k hands), but I moved back to NLHE50 and then NLHE25 in an effort to open up my game last 2-3 days. I watch videos, read, make stupid posts, ask for help etc. and try to improve nowadays)

[netstorm]

Well, you are obvisouly on the right way in working on your game. Only advice I can give you for now is that if you are going to try to open up your game, make sure you stay positionally aware.

Standard nitty styles can be like AQ+, 22+ from UTG, and adding in SCs in late positions.

If you want to open that up a bit more, start raising AXs from LP, along with ATo+.

Opening it up more, trow in some offsuited connectors, suited one gappers, any broadway cards.

Again, this is all personal preferences. Some people prefer to fold 44 UTG, but raise T8s there. Try it out, but be wary of marginal hands that get you into difficult situations (hands like KTo come to mind)

[deaders]

You learn it by raising more hands and playing a LOT of hands to learn how to make it all work postflop, combine that with posting hands here and discussing them with friends on aim etc and thats how most people here have developed. Nobody is going to write you a guide on 'how to play poker', and even if they did it wouldnt be as useful as you would think because you need to have played enough hands to know how to apply it anyway.

If you are sufficiently overrolled for say 50nl, then dont be scared to experiment with splashing around more, try new things and if it works/doesnt work try to figure out why and use that to work out more specific situations that you can post questions about.

[Burcak]

Well this thread turned into a thread about me hehe.

I am just a newcomer to this forum (and poker) and think it is somehow needed.

Most books only cover preflop play with charts, then tell a lot about what poker is (ie. you don't actually lose anything when you get sucked out, which nobody really gets anyway), then tell the same thing about pot odds and are done.

Ed Miller/Sklansky have a NL book that goes beyond that, but the strategy mentioned there includes open/limping, which is pretty hard imo.

So the "default" player in ssnl is way, way ahead of the information you could get from a book, and the gap isn't really filled by reading hand discussions.

My own poker journey is my own problem and I won't ask people to write a guide "for me". Sure I am trying to get information wherever I can. But I think it has value for everyone "like me".

I am working real hard to learn to play. I don't think I will fail either way. I can stumble upon some shortcuts (like the line I read on some random posts about pokerev triangles, which completely cleared up a subject for me that would take months maybe, to understand on my own), and in some areas I will struggle much (like double barreling, which I just started to "get", even tho I tried real hard) but in the end I am not VERY concerned about myself.

If this post gave you the impression I asked this for myself, then I am sorry. But it wasn't my intention.

[soda]

I can think of a couple of things new players can do to profitably open up their game.

For both of these "training sessions" you should pick a low limit where the money means very little to you. You also need to pretend that the money is just as important as your usual limit so that you are trying to make +EV decisions instead of spewing.

First, play just one or two tables at a preflop rate of 40/30 (VPIP/PFR). Find profitable places to three bet outside of your usual comfort range, pick easy targets (people who raise too much preflop, blind stealers, etc.). Find places to float people and take pots away on the turn/river. Find places to limp behind limpers on the button (some may disagree with this, but I believe it has merit with certain hands/types of opponents). Find spots to double barrel with air, several times each session and if you can find one spot per session to successfully triple barrel that would be a good start too. Use these sessions to push yourself out of your comfort zone while simultaneously being comfortable about it due to the lower limits.

Playing 40/30 might be tough to win money, but when you drop down to a more reasonable opening level your game will be much better because your decisions become simpler and your cards stronger and people will take less shots at you (which would be appropriate strategy against an overloose player).

Then, once you are comfortable and making some real strong decisions go ahead and cover your hole cards for an hour session with a post it note or some such device. That's right - play blind - every hand. This will force you to pay exclusive attention to your opponents and learn how to win hands without a showdown. And best of all, it's a lot of fun - especially when you manage to book a win without looking at your cards.

I hope this helps you.

soda

[markuisis]

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I can think of a couple of things new players can do to profitably open up their game.

For both of these "training sessions" you should pick a low limit where the money means very little to you. You also need to pretend that the money is just as important as your usual limit so that you are trying to make +EV decisions instead of spewing.

First, play just one or two tables at a preflop rate of 40/30 (VPIP/PFR). Find profitable places to three bet outside of your usual comfort range, pick easy targets (people who raise too much preflop, blind stealers, etc.). Find places to float people and take pots away on the turn/river. Find places to limp behind limpers on the button (some may disagree with this, but I believe it has merit with certain hands/types of opponents). Find spots to double barrel with air, several times each session and if you can find one spot per session to successfully triple barrel that would be a good start too. Use these sessions to push yourself out of your comfort zone while simultaneously being comfortable about it due to the lower limits.

Playing 40/30 might be tough to win money, but when you drop down to a more reasonable opening level your game will be much better because your decisions become simpler and your cards stronger and people will take less shots at you (which would be appropriate strategy against an overloose player).

Then, once you are comfortable and making some real strong decisions go ahead and cover your hole cards for an hour session with a post it note or some such device. That's right - play blind - every hand. This will force you to pay exclusive attention to your opponents and learn how to win hands without a showdown. And best of all, it's a lot of fun - especially when you manage to book a win without looking at your cards.

I hope this helps you.

soda

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nice post

[kbfc]

As someone who on average plays a fairly LAG preflop game, whenever I see people ask about opening up their game, it strikes me that they are thinking about the whole thing incorrectly -- searching for a magic VPIP/PFR combo.

When it comes down to it, the only thing that really matters when I'm deciding whether or not to play a hand is: "can I show a profit here?" There are numerous factors involved in almost all of these decisions, but the one that is not is, "will playing this hand increase my VPIP to X%?"

So, the best advice is as true as it is trite: get better at playing poker.

The better you play poker, the more often you'll find yourself answering 'yes' to the aformentioned question. Then when you're done with your session, you can bring up Poker Tracker and see how much your preflop numbers went up.

Cliff Notes: Add me to the chorus of people telling you not to focus on preflop stuff, but rather learn to play postflop and the rest will take care of itself.

[Jamougha]

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When it comes down to it, the only thing that really matters when I'm deciding whether or not to play a hand is: "can I show a profit here?"

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What most people miss is that, in many situations, no-one knows the real answer to this question.