Like it? Hate it?

[yapee]

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Futhermore, I'm not saying to bet/bet/bet this hand, in fact, I think the ideal line is bet the flop, c/r this turn. It lets him put more money in on a float/bluff line, maximizes value against hands we have beat, and we have a lot of outs if we are surprisingly behind.

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I like this line in a spot like this. IMHO it gets maximum value of bluffs and worse queens. Of course it also let's us stack to a set, which OP is trying to avoid at all costs as I see it... But still I like it.

And I do think one should bet such flops for consistency if for nothing else, because what would you be trying to represent with a c-bet on this flop if you consistently check your TPTK on it? (That's really an argument against making this a standard line, but doing this one time may still be ok...?)

[Isura]

I prefer to miniraise the flop in these spots (2.5-3x his bet) if you want to go for value. With this line you let him control the pot size too easily on the turn, and miss a lot of value. So unless he is a bluff monkey I wouldn't take this line, and if so then he's probably not folding a Q or JJ either on the river so just put the rest in.

[markuisis]

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[ QUOTE ]
Futhermore, I'm not saying to bet/bet/bet this hand, in fact, I think the ideal line is bet the flop, c/r this turn. It lets him put more money in on a float/bluff line, maximizes value against hands we have beat, and we have a lot of outs if we are surprisingly behind.

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I like this line in a spot like this. IMHO it gets maximum value of bluffs and worse queens. Of course it also let's us stack to a set, which OP is trying to avoid at all costs as I see it... But still I like it.

And I do think one should bet such flops for consistency if for nothing else, because what would you be trying to represent with a c-bet on this flop if you consistently check your TPTK on it? (That's really an argument against making this a standard line, but doing this one time may still be ok...?)

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ya i agree with this obviously being transparent if used frequently since im betting all my air here and almost always my middle pairs without reads on his bluffing frequency. Thats y i think that betting the flop, c/c the turn and river or if turn is checked through betting most rivers is a very appealing line also. u guys agree that c/raising the turn is really gross against competent players right? k bye.