Do online tells exist?

[excession]

yeh..durr...aba..and green plastic must be wrong then...because they all believe in timing tells...

Of course betting patterns are critical to getting reads online - but the question was 'do timing tells exist?'

The correct answer is 'yes', especially when you observe an opponent for a while and note use of things like check/fold boxes or insta-calls with weak made hands or draws.

They are not as reliable or useful in general as going off betting patterns and you can be a winning player and entirely ignore them, but they DO exist..

[choccypie]

Timing tells do exist online, but there are players who wait till they've almost timed out before they make a move. I haven't quite figured whether that's to piss you off or because they don't want to give any tells away.

[wolfbeo]

a checkbox call pf right after raise usually is a very strong hand ime.

doesn't happen very often, though.

[Copernicus]

[ QUOTE ]
a checkbox call pf right after raise usually is a very strong hand ime.

doesn't happen very often, though.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would think a checkbox call PF is a sure sign of weakness. AA/KK need to consider how many are in the hand in order to size bets. An insta-call usually is a hand that is willing to play for the big blind or first raise but no more.

[Poker Clif]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeh - insta calls usually mean fairly weak hands - either draws or weak made hand like 2nd pair or weak ace on an ace high flop in a raised pot- if the turn misses it's often worth 2 barrelling.

Also a slight pause from a player can often indicate strength - just because people take more time to consider their options with strong holdings rather than marginal hands - you can use this when firing CB's - if I put in a slight pause before firing in a CB at just under a round number (like $9 into a $16 pot of whatever) - the more observant opponets start to smell a big hand a fold more often - the effect can be quite noticeable. Of course a longer delay can mean 101 things but a little pause before acting can be worth looking outfor.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with the above paragraph completely.

When I pause, it's usually to figure out how much to raise, or less often, thinking about pot/implied odds on a close call.

Either way, I have either a made hand or a decent draw, and I haven't figured out how to take the time I need without giving off a tell.

It's not a big problem in micro tournaments, becasue of the quality of the opposition, and the fact that they don't have a lot of time to get a read on me.

Still, it's a tell that I need to work on eliminating. I think it's just a matter of getting faster with the math, and seeing situations often enough that it gets more automatic.

One thing I have started doing is just waiting an extra 5 or 10 seconds every to act every so often, so as not make it so certain that I'm pondering a good hand.

[primate]

[ QUOTE ]
an Insta shove or raise indicates strength too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just the opposite but when I was starting out online and bluffing/semibluffing I found myself insta shoving alot and thinking before pushing my big hands.

[wolfbeo]

[ QUOTE ]
I would think a checkbox call PF is a sure sign of weakness.
AA/KK need to consider how many are in the hand in order to size bets. An insta-call usually is a hand that is willing to play for the big blind or first raise but no more.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's what i thought, but after reading a similiar thread in an other forum i startet to flag those hands (checkbox-call preflop one or two positions after a raise) and found that more than 90% of them were group 1 hands.

btw i differed (as best as possible) between checkbox calls and "manual" insta-calls an.

[insyder19]

In a raised pot, if it's checked instantly to the original raiser, does that mean they all missed?