2-4 Broadway counterfeited

Tiltguru · #1 03-18-2006, 02:04 AM

By far the most disgusting hand I have played in a while. Pretty interesting though, hopefully it will spawn some good discussion.

PT reads: co - 86/51/2.7
button - 81/8/.3

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP raises, CO calls, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, MP calls, CO calls.

Flop: (10 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP bets, CO calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP bets, CO calls, Hero raises, MP calls, CO calls.

River: (12.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP bets, CO raises, Hero folds, MP calls.

Final Pot: 16.50 BB

sharpie · #2 03-18-2006, 02:16 AM

Uhhhh bet the flop!

Jihad · #3 03-18-2006, 02:17 AM

I can't really wrap my brain around the turn and river, because not betting that flop is something I would never, ever do.

ImsaKidd · #4 03-18-2006, 02:29 AM

Dude, bet flop. At least raise once there is a bet and a call on the flop?!?!?!

Tiltguru · #5 03-18-2006, 02:30 AM

I agree betting the flop would be better value wise. But it changes nothing since neither of these 2 ever fold. So you really can't wrap your head around the turn and river considering they play almost the exact same way even if you bet the flop?

ooinsight · #6 03-18-2006, 05:13 AM

That is results oriented logic -> backwards thinking. I absolutely understand where it comes from but don't let it get to you. It is correct to bet the flop because you flopped the nuts and you should extract as much as possible. You don't want the flush draw to see that club cheap, nor do you want a set or 2p to get a cheap turn card. Think about it, the majority of the time you don't get couterfeited and when you extract more on each street you get paid off huge. Its fine if they want to donk around here because long run that makes you lots of $. You shouldn't get into the mentality of "I know I am going to get rivered and they will call no matter what"

pete3145 · #7 03-18-2006, 05:23 AM

I would not slow play the flop with a possible flush draw out.
I'd bet out and hope MP raises, so a flush draw has to pay the maximum for drawing.

keikiwai · #8 03-18-2006, 05:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I would not slow play the flop with a possible flush draw out.
I'd bet out and hope MP raises, so a flush draw has to pay the maximum for drawing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Another important point is there are other draws out there besides a flush. Additionally, since it's an all paint flop the probability that a villain has a 2 pair is increased.

Tiltguru · #9 03-18-2006, 04:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
That is results oriented logic -> backwards thinking. I absolutely understand where it comes from but don't let it get to you. It is correct to bet the flop because you flopped the nuts and you should extract as much as possible. You don't want the flush draw to see that club cheap, nor do you want a set or 2p to get a cheap turn card. Think about it, the majority of the time you don't get couterfeited and when you extract more on each street you get paid off huge. Its fine if they want to donk around here because long run that makes you lots of $. You shouldn't get into the mentality of "I know I am going to get rivered and they will call no matter what"

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand why I should have bet the flop, and I understand about making people pay to draw out. I agree. No question that was a mistake. I was trying to slowplay, to check raise on the turn since I knew exactly how these guys played. If I bet the flop, mp would have raised, co would cold call, then I would re-raise and they would both go into calling mode and call down. This table was amazing needless to say. My mistake was a simple one, but it had nothing to do with any fundamental miss-understanding I assure you.

Tiltguru · #10 03-18-2006, 04:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would not slow play the flop with a possible flush draw out.
I'd bet out and hope MP raises, so a flush draw has to pay the maximum for drawing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Another important point is there are other draws out there besides a flush. Additionally, since it's an all paint flop the probability that a villain has a 2 pair is increased.

[/ QUOTE ]

These players are absolutely no more likely to have 2 pair on this board then a 2 7 T board. This logic only applies to oppnents that use some hand selection.

I am also interested in what you guys think of the river fold. Standard? I know I can't make money on this call since I can at best split a 3rd of the pot and at worst lose to the flush.