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#1
10-31-2007, 08:05 PM
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Re: Joe Torre = Dodgers manager
[ QUOTE ]
Out of practice in doing what? In having the pitcher bunt? There's less strategy involved in managing an NL team than an AL team. Maybe in the days when pitchers routinely went 9 and a quality closer was a rarity, there were some crucial late inning decisions to be made in the 7th or 8th inning of a close game. But not any more. [/ QUOTE ] this is so so wrong National League game 1-1 bottom of the 7th 2 outs runner on 2nd and your ace pitcher is do up. Do you take him out? or let him bat cause he is your ace and see what happens Larussa said coming to the NL was a bigger adjustment than he ever imagined. he adjusted and has done well (well batting the pitcher 8th was retarted imo but thats a discussion for another day) Willie Randolph totally botched up every double switch he made in 2005. He has gotten better, but still screws it up. There is much more strategy to managing a national league team, and anyone who says otherwise is not looking at it rationally. 
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#2
10-31-2007, 08:17 PM
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Re: Joe Torre = Dodgers manager
Your hypothetical is super easy. You take him out and if you don't have two good guys in your bullpen for two innings your team sucks hard. Your ace is likely around 100 pitches anyway so wtf? That's not a tough decision. Like I said, pinch-hitting for a pitcher is a fool's job.
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#3
10-31-2007, 08:56 PM
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Re: Joe Torre = Dodgers manager
[ QUOTE ]
Your hypothetical is super easy. You take him out and if you don't have two good guys in your bullpen for two innings your team sucks hard. Your ace is likely around 100 pitches anyway so wtf? That's not a tough decision. Like I said, pinch-hitting for a pitcher is a fool's job. [/ QUOTE ] It used to be a tougher decision. There were games in which sandy koufax was allowed to bat in a tied game in the bottom of the 9th and 2 outs with the winning run on 3rd (he was an exceptionally bad hitter) He would stike out and pitch 4 or 5 more innings. So obviously the game has changed a ton and pitchers wearing skirts makes decsions less difficult. But you still see tons of managers botching double switches and there are still a lot of situations where batting for the pitcher isnt as clear cut. Torre will botch this stuff miserably.
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#4
10-31-2007, 09:28 PM
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Re: Joe Torre = Dodgers manager
Well, then I guess a trained monkey must be smarter than most baseball managers, because none of these decisions are hard. I do think it's funny that you use Sandy Koufax as an example of a pitcher who didn't wear a skirt, when he is one of the poster children for not overworking your pitchers, retiring at age 30 due to injury after consecutive 320+ inning seasons.
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#5
11-01-2007, 01:59 AM
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Re: Joe Torre = Dodgers manager
[ QUOTE ]
Well, then I guess a trained monkey must be smarter than most baseball managers, because none of these decisions are hard. I do think it's funny that you use Sandy Koufax as an example of a pitcher who didn't wear a skirt, when he is one of the poster children for not overworking your pitchers, retiring at age 30 due to injury after consecutive 320+ inning seasons. [/ QUOTE ] True, but if he had the same injury today he would be fine after a year or 2. Not to mention while he is an example of someone who got hurt pitching in a time when medical treatment wasnt as advanced, tons of pitchers had long careers dispite being "overworked" These guys wear out after 100 pitches (a braindead benchmark to begin with. Its anice round number so people go with it. Some can cant thorw 80 and some can throw 150- atleast go with individualized pitch counts) because they are babied. Theres no reason that 30 years ago pitchers could throw complete games on 3 days rest all the time and now they cant throw 7 IP on 4 days rest. Amazing Nolan Ryan and Clemens werent done at 25.
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#6
11-01-2007, 02:02 AM
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Re: Joe Torre = Dodgers manager
you do realize it's WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY harder to pitch nowadays than it was back then? do some research. it's not about being babied. it's that the job is harder on an individual basis. jeez.
roger clemens must be such a baby because he can barely make it past 5 IP nowadays.
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#7
11-01-2007, 02:17 AM
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Re: Joe Torre = Dodgers manager
[ QUOTE ]
you do realize it's WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY harder to pitch nowadays than it was back then? do some research. it's not about being babied. it's that the job is harder on an individual basis. jeez. roger clemens must be such a baby because he can barely make it past 5 IP nowadays. [/ QUOTE ] Hes 45 [censored] years old. he had a 2 year period where he threw 32 complete games and amazingly his arm didn't fall off. Part of it is that its harder to pitch these days. not wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy harder like you make it out to be. There were a few legit great closers and other managers had to copy what they with there worthless relievers. So now they think a "closer" is a position when its not. Pitcher is a position. If you have Papelbon , Rivera or someone like that fine. But guys who dont have pitchers that good still think they need a closer and a useless pile of crap like Joe Borowski racks up saves. Managers love the lefty righty [censored] too. It makes sense sometimes (like when a lefty is actually good against lefties) it gets flat out stupid when a manager takes out a good right handed pitcher for an awful lefty to get someone like Garet Anderson out (who actually hits lefties.) Its even funnier when they pinch hit a [censored] lefty against Rivera in place of a good righty even though righties hit rivera better. But ofcourse going lefty righty all day and yanking good pitchers for bad ones is what smart managers do to win games lmao.
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#8
10-31-2007, 11:24 PM
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Re: Joe Torre = Dodgers manager
[ QUOTE ]
pitchers wearing skirts makes decsions less difficult. [/ QUOTE ] I think you mean pitchers having to be better at their job and not being able to save pitches because 1/3 of the lineup is an easy out is the reason. Has nothing to do with "pitcher swearing skirts," lmfao.
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#9
10-31-2007, 08:26 PM
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Re: Joe Torre = Dodgers manager
[ QUOTE ]
National League game 1-1 bottom of the 7th 2 outs runner on 2nd and your ace pitcher is do up. Do you take him out? or let him bat cause he is your ace and see what happens [/ QUOTE ] The Dodgers could try something new this year when playing at Dodger Stadium: The fans can vote and decide from the 7th inning on. I am sure asking 25 fans wouldn't take too long.
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#10
10-31-2007, 09:36 PM
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Re: Joe Torre = Dodgers manager
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Out of practice in doing what? In having the pitcher bunt? There's less strategy involved in managing an NL team than an AL team. Maybe in the days when pitchers routinely went 9 and a quality closer was a rarity, there were some crucial late inning decisions to be made in the 7th or 8th inning of a close game. But not any more. [/ QUOTE ] this is so so wrong National League game 1-1 bottom of the 7th 2 outs runner on 2nd and your ace pitcher is do up. Do you take him out? or let him bat cause he is your ace and see what happens Larussa said coming to the NL was a bigger adjustment than he ever imagined. he adjusted and has done well (well batting the pitcher 8th was retarted imo but thats a discussion for another day) Willie Randolph totally botched up every double switch he made in 2005. He has gotten better, but still screws it up. There is much more strategy to managing a national league team, and anyone who says otherwise is not looking at it rationally. [/ QUOTE ] Is your point that this is a really close, marginal decision? Because if so, wtf cares about it. Just like in poker, the longer you argue about the way to play a hand the less it matters. Or is your point that this is a super easy decision that a bunch of managers screw up?
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