Lakers and Bulls discussing Kobe trade daily

[capone0]

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Maybe that's the most attractive scenario: go for a ring now with Wallace, Kobe, and Deng. I think that's asking a lot and you're giving up a ton.

Or, you know, they could stand pat and wait for a better deal instead of buying into the Kobe hype.

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with the deal i said they'd have tyrus thomas still as well(plus Dfish would be a gret fit)

one year of playing together and deng/thomas obviously still improving and they are a championship team...right now they are not

my version of the deal would make sense for them

and LOL and not buying into the kobe hype... the dude is michael jordan with a better 3 pointer

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Michael Jordan had a much better 2 point game, his EFG was much higher in his prime. He was also the best player on his team for all 6 of his titles. Kobe hasn't been the best player on his team for 1 of his 3 titles.

[kidcolin]

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and LOL and not buying into the kobe hype... the dude is michael jordan with a better 3 pointer


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no.. he's not. Basketball is more than points. Better defensive player? Jordan (maybe if Kobe tried more on that end it'd be closer). Better rebounder? Jordan by a good margin (don't just look at raw numbers.. think about pace factors). Assists are pretty much a push. Probably most importantly, Jordan turned it over a lot less.

Who's the career leader in PER? Jordan, at ~27. Kobe's career PER is 23.5. That's a big gap, and you can't chalk it up to his rookie year (or even first two years if you're being generous), considering Jordan came back after a four year hiatus and played two full seasons that were very good, but not up to Jordan's freakish standards.

Mind you, I'm not saying Kobe isn't amazing. He is. He's great. By the "Kobe hype", I meant exactly what you just said. That he's some Jordan like talent. If the Bulls trade for him as if he is, they're making a mistake.

[Fonkey123]

kidcolin for mod

[L'ennemi.]

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jesus this thread is full of retardedness.

Or, you know, they could stand pat and wait for a better deal instead of buying into the Kobe hype. I generally think the Bulls have been too conservative in the past couple of seasons, but they've done a great job as an organization in terms of building a very strong, competitive team and additionally having expendable assets. It'll just be a huge lol if the Lakers pull a major coup after the Bulls have balked on the likes of KG and Gasol (who filled actual needs, not just improved in an area they were already very good at).

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They clearly are not buying in the Kobe hype as they clearly are not dealing deng and gordon. And hinrich doesn't even seems to be come up in the trade talks
If they are getting Kobe, they're getting him for cheap. It is even clearer as Kobe will veto any trade that weaken the Bulls too much(nice use of the no trade clause).
And I think that the Lakers are not in a confortable situation to negociate, so they might end up doing something dumb

[Vyse]

Duhon is way better to play with Kobe than Hinrich for a ton of reasons. Here's why:

-- Trading Hinrich = you give him up at his full value while w/ Kobe he's going to lose some because Hinrich shoots too much (13.3 FGA). That's more FGA's than Lamar Odom, probably about even once you adjust for FTs.

-- We're assuming you keep Deng when you trade Hinrich.

-- Duhon's D > Hinrich. Duhon's usage level is quite low, but he still does everything he needs to do to fit in perfectly: great D, hit open 3s/shots, and low TOs. Hinrich does most of these things well for a PG but overall simply uses too many possessions.

-- Money saved. Hinrich: 9.5 mil/year for next five. Duhon: 3.2 mil this year, FA but won't come close to 9.5 mil; more like the MLE (5.5 mil) or less. Duhon's also one year younger.

The money saved is also extremely important to give the Bulls more flexibility / make sure they keep their young role-players at reasonable contracts.

Kobe dominates the ball so much that what makes Hinrich better than Duhon and a really good PG -- can play 35+ minutes at point, handle the ball a lot, and keep his TOs low and overall be pretty efficient -- is diminished because Kobe can and will dominate the ball a lot more. So you're no longer getting $9.5 million of value out of Hinrich.

Again, Duhon + Kobe + Deng + Nocioni + Wallace >> Hinrich + Kobe + Nocioni + Noah + Wallace

[kidcolin]

meh.. we're saying different things. Or rather, your argument doesn't really support your claim that "Duhon is way better to play with Kobe than Hinrich for a ton of reasons."

I think it's obvious Deng + Kobe is better than Hinrich + Kobe. That's the ideal scenario. However, it's obvious that a backcourt of Hinrich + Kobe is much better than Duhon + Kobe. Duhon's a good backup. He's not a starter.

The money point doesn't make much sense, because Deng is going to be commanding a lot of cash soon (he hasn't signed a contract yet, right?). Probably more than Hinrich. And your point about Kobe dominating the ball negatively affecting Hinrich holds true for Deng, too, if not more so. At least Hinrich can knock down 3s off of Kobe penetration. Deng is more of a slasher/midrange guy.

The only reason I'd want Deng more is because he's 22 and isn't near his peak yet. Hinrich is, and though it's nice having a 2nd tier PG in this league, Deng's ceiling is too attractive to give up, given he's not going to get any worse than 18/7/4 or whatever.

[Fonkey123]

Deng isn't signed yet but probably before tomorrow for (my guess anyway) 5 for 55-58

Gordon hasn't and probably won't. If they both get signed no trade is happening though.

[Green Kool Aid]

By the end of the year Deng will have value very very close to that of Carmelo or Joe Johnson IMO.


IIRC both of those guys got 5/80.

Deng should be looking at at least 5/70.

[Fonkey123]

You also are giving Duhon way way way wayyyyy too much credit.

[Fonkey123]

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By the end of the year Deng will have value very very close to that of Carmelo or Joe Johnson IMO.


IIRC both of those guys got 5/80.

Deng should be looking at at least 5/70.

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Deng said he wanted 5/60 the bulls countered (or initially offered either way same outcome) 5/50

My guess would be 5/55-58 getting signed before tomorrow nights deadline.

edit Gordon also said he might go UFA in 2 years (lol omg ROFL) and I highly highly doubt he gets signed before the offseason