Why would the NJCCC care about players making change for one another?

[AngusThermopyle]

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That's tournament winnings and they're not going to do that anymore.
http://www.pokernews.com/news/2007/1...e-debunked.htm


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But you must give the cardroom/casino a valid tax ID number to report to the IRS on the tournament wins over $5K or they must withhold 28% (or give the IRS 25% themselves).

[DrewOnTilt]

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Drew - I think this was always NJ law because I heard that this was the case years ago except it was never enforced. Taj was subject to a fine a few years back because poker players were paying for takeout food using chips which is against the law, chips are not legal tender. Additionally its against the law in AC to leave a casino with chips, there are placcards on all the exit doors explaining this.

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Huh. I guess that I'm a criminal, since I have $24 in Borgata chips in front of me right now.

[DrewOnTilt]

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Instead of asking the floormen to split their attention on that, they should just make sure the cage is well-staffed so these transactions aren't as attractive. Most of us would rather buy chips at the cage, but if I'm in a 10-minute line, and the guy behind me has a rack of what I need, I'm inclined to make the purchase.

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On top of that, many of the high stakes players there are lazy and complain about having to walk to the cage if there is no chip runner present. I don't mind the trip to the cage, but others seem to mind it. Whatever keeps the fish happy...

[DrewOnTilt]

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I was told that rule had something to do with NGCC attempt to track 10k buyins and cash outs (mostly cash outs). If you over 10k at the end of the session (which Drew can only be by buying in for 20K [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]) not being able to sell chips at the table will force you to go to cage and get reported unless you have a box but many people do not have boxes.

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Lenny I know that you are joking, but the 20k to 10k problem makes a good deal of the cashouts that exceed $10k almost a non-issue. Think of the donators in that game who routinely buy in for $4k - $8k at a time, dump a few buyins, but then go on a huge rush. So what if one of them ends up cashing out $12k when he bought in for $8k on two occasions?

Of course, I could potentially face the problem of turning $20k into $40k, so long as I am given the opportunity to coldcap you with 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Gonso]

The CCC is probably the toughest regulatory agency in US gaming. We have a procedure for everything at my day job, people coming here from Vegas and other areas are always pretty astounded by the red tape here. It's almost entirely my boss's job appeasing them.

I'd guess that a quarter of all my tasks have no purpose outside of some oddball compliance issue with no relavance to gaming security. I have to fill out data transfer forms when I send daily financial reports to our home office out of states. It's silly.

[Max Raker]

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Taj was subject to a fine a few years back because poker players were paying for takeout food using chips which is against the law, chips are not legal tender.

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I don't understand this. I can pay for take out with gold bars or diamonds if I want. Money is legal tender and must be accepted if offered to cancel a debt but it is not the only thing that can be used to pay off a debt.

[chucky]

True but for tax purposes purchases from a commercial entity like a restaurant probably require legal tender of some sort to prevent the creation of a gray market.

[Gonso]

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Taj was subject to a fine a few years back because poker players were paying for takeout food using chips which is against the law, chips are not legal tender.

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I don't understand this. I can pay for take out with gold bars or diamonds if I want. Money is legal tender and must be accepted if offered to cancel a debt but it is not the only thing that can be used to pay off a debt.

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It's against the law in both New Jersey and Nevada and has been for a long time. The gaming commissions in both of these jurisdictions can regulate pretty much any commercial transaction there is in the casinos, including player-to-player matters. It's just that most of the time a lot of these smaller things aren't enforced or are unenforcable as a practical matter.

The initial issue was that there were Federal guidelines about what can and can't be used as currency which is a little different than bartering here, and the state governments had to enforce it somewhat. I think there were tax and accounting issues with the casinos IIRC, we had an article in our trade press about it a while back.

Also, the CCC fines for a lot of things.

[bav]

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Taj was subject to a fine a few years back because poker players were paying for takeout food using chips which is against the law, chips are not legal tender.

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I don't understand this. I can pay for take out with gold bars or diamonds if I want. Money is legal tender and must be accepted if offered to cancel a debt but it is not the only thing that can be used to pay off a debt.

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It's against the law in both New Jersey and Nevada and has been for a long time.

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It's also pretty universally ignored in Vegas. I've NEVER seen a waitroid hand back chips to a player attempting to pay for dinner at the poker table (though I think I have seen 'em refuse chips in a restaurant).

In other jurisdictions I have seen waitroids going through a routine with players attempting to pay for something with chips... They simply make change for the chips and hand the full amount of cash back to the player, who then hands it back to the waitroid (usually after some strange looks and back and forth discussion as to why this odd procedure it taking place). That way, they aren't paying for the item with chips, they're just cashing in their chips, and then paying for the item with cash. Demonstrates the absolute stupidity of the regulation.