AP Spokesman Mark Seif Video Interview Oct 26

[ikestoys]

I'm going to post this again, because I feel like its important and I agree with stuckinpgh nearly 100%:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...=1#Post12125557

also, if trolling = pointing out the truth in a conspirtard thread, I'm guilty.

[nath]

afskdjsldfhldfjhasljdflasdflhj CAN THESE THREADS EVER NOT GO COMPLETELY RETARDED

i mean i have like half the thread on ignore

why hasn't ps3tn0yck whatever been banned yet

daack there is no reason to have 10 consecutive posts, one for each individual sentence of a post you were responding to

asdflsjhdflajsf there's so much stupidity in these things

[Ps3tn0NcYk]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm going to post this again, because I feel like its important and I agree with stuckinpgh nearly 100%:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...=1#Post12125557

also, if trolling = pointing out the truth in a conspirtard thread, I'm guilty.

[/ QUOTE ]

You haven't pointed out any truths. If you are guilty of anything, it is obfuscating the matter by posting irrelevant details.

In the post you link to, the author also unequivocally states that he/she does not think AP management is involved in the cheating. It was later revealed that in fact the founder and his bud were the main conspirators of the scheme to defraud players on the site.

It appears the author, like you, is trying to put the best face on the issue because:

[ QUOTE ]
I [stuckinpgh] have played at these rooms [AP & UB] almost every single day for the last two years and have had very good success at both sites.

[/ QUOTE ]

The author is circling the wagons in an attempt to salvage his "golden goose". I'm sure the amount he lost to any potential cheating is tiny compared to the money generated on account of his "very good success at both" AP and UB.

It's a value proposition. Push for accountability and transparency but risk a 100% loss of a site where you have experienced "very good success". Put on the best face in hopes of salvaging the continuance of "very good success" at AP.

You are equally transparent.

[ikestoys]

The author is the guy who was "cheated" by Seif. He states that he has no proof that Seif cheated.

His post was made before the second round of revelations came out about AP, which included IP numbers.

Big quote:
[ QUOTE ]
At this point if I was cheated or not is really irrelevant. Perhaps I was just angry at losing such a large sum which at the time was more than just a micro percentage of my bankroll. I've always thought it was a terrible prop for Mark to play those big games anyway. Afterall if he wins tons then it's rigged for him, if he loses then he loses his money and has to deal with all the trash talking that goes along with it. I don't play much live poker other than some wsop events so I haven't had a chance to really meet Mark, but I would actually like to meet him at some point and apologize to him at least for blatantly accusing him of cheating without a lot more concrete proof other than a few dozen hands played with him. At this point I'm chalking it up to me making a poor overall decision even though it might have been good table selection by playing him. Afterall he may not be a popular person in the poker world but he still is a professional player and should be given some respect for that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can we end the Seif thing now?

[Ps3tn0NcYk]

Take a logic class, ikestoys.

The basis of stuckinpgh's conclusion was invalidated when the top of the AP food chain was in fact later found guilty of viewing opposing players hole cards.

In light of this, I suspect stuckinpgh's position on this has been slightly altered.

Regardless, he also states whether he was cheater or not is irrelevant [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]. This indicates to me someone who is more concerned with AP folding, and therefore risking the future possibility of continued "very good success" on the site, than recovering any lost monies due to cheating.

No evidence of cheating is not evidence of no cheating - particularly when the evidence was negligently destroyed by the cheating employer of the alleged cheater.

The Seif thing will not end until HH are produced or AP is punished by the KGC for breaching their licensing agreement in regards to the storing of HH for 5 years.

[RagzMaster]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Wait. What?

[ QUOTE ]
I've lost 40k in this debacle, yet it gets me no green pass.

[/ QUOTE ]


ikestoys, please reconcile the above statement with the one you made below.

[ QUOTE ]

Finally, just got my money back, ended being ~40k. This is approx a months work for me and is greatly appreciated

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

and with this lovely post, I'm done with this thread. You know exactly how this is reconciled and are being stupid on purpose. If not, god bless your soul.

[/ QUOTE ]

One Time ?!?

[Dan Druff]

Let me put some of this stupid argument to bed.

I know stuckinpgh personally. I have been friends with the guy for 3 years. I discussed the Seif matter with him at the time his questionable match occurred (Feb 06), as well as recently since all the superuser evidence came out.

He is not getting involved with this due to personal reasons I will not disclose. However, I can guarantee that he is not convinced Seif is innocent. Trust me when I say that he really, really, REALLY wishes those hand histories were available. He lost them when his computer broke last year.

The above statements are not guesses on my part. They came directly from stuckinpgh himself when I talked to him about the matter.

Now, regarding Mark...

Once again, I never accused him of cheating. I don't know if he cheated or not. However, he owes it to all AP players to make public any questionable session, given all that has happened recently. Basically, there needs to be complete transparency as far as AP and Seif are concerned. This transparency has not yet taken place.

Seif cannot act insulted that people are questioning him about that session, regardless of whether he's guilty or innocent. Let's look at the facts:

1) Mark was accused of seeing hole cards more than 20 months before anyone thought such a thing was possible.

2) A cheating scandal occurred over the summer where the highest level people at AP viewed people's hole cards -- an m/o identical to what Seif was accused of in early 2006.

3) All proof that could have exonerated Mark is missing from AP's servers, even though the cost of storing hand histories is extremely trivial.

4) Mark promised to show the complete hand histories, supposedly completely ignorant of the fact that they were unavailable.

5) Despite his 2 bracelets and years of tournament experience, Mark is the only poker player in the world who could not see clear cheating in the POTRIPPER re-enactment.

ikestoys, honestly, do you believe Mark has the right to act indignant when people call him into question for the above?

[J-dub]

I haven't read this whole thread, but I've paid a bit of attention to the scandal. And, since this is BBV, here's my brag (20 months ago!)

My opinion on Seif

[pokergrader]

[ QUOTE ]
The author is the guy who was "cheated" by Seif. He states that he has no proof that Seif cheated.

His post was made before the second round of revelations came out about AP, which included IP numbers.

Big quote:
[ QUOTE ]
At this point if I was cheated or not is really irrelevant. Perhaps I was just angry at losing such a large sum which at the time was more than just a micro percentage of my bankroll. I've always thought it was a terrible prop for Mark to play those big games anyway. Afterall if he wins tons then it's rigged for him, if he loses then he loses his money and has to deal with all the trash talking that goes along with it. I don't play much live poker other than some wsop events so I haven't had a chance to really meet Mark, but I would actually like to meet him at some point and apologize to him at least for blatantly accusing him of cheating without a lot more concrete proof other than a few dozen hands played with him. At this point I'm chalking it up to me making a poor overall decision even though it might have been good table selection by playing him. Afterall he may not be a popular person in the poker world but he still is a professional player and should be given some respect for that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can we end the Seif thing now?

[/ QUOTE ]

So we are going to correctly chastise AP, but nobody that works for them deserves any mud slung their way (other than anonymous high level consultants)?

You know what, you are right. How dare we, the cheated customers, question this company who has been so forthright with evidence and proof. Especially this fine man, Mark Seif, who defends himself by attacking us for belittling his informative and forthcoming statements. I mean of course he didn't cheat, even though he had the means and no chance of getting caught. And maybe as a professional player he would actually know how to cheat and make it look good. But of course he wouldn't do that, he is such a noble guy.

Lets just drop this whole AP thing. I'm sure they didn't mean any harm.

[Ps3tn0NcYk]

[ QUOTE ]

1) Mark was accused of seeing hole cards more than 20 months before anyone thought such a thing was possible.

2) A cheating scandal occurred over the summer where the highest level people at AP viewed people's hole cards -- an m/o identical to what Seif was accused of in early 2006.

3) All proof that could have exonerated Mark is missing from AP's servers, even though the cost of storing hand histories is extremely trivial.

4) Mark promised to show the complete hand histories, supposedly completely ignorant of the fact that they were unavailable.

5) Despite his 2 bracelets and years of tournament experience, Mark is the only poker player in the world who could not see clear cheating in the POTRIPPER re-enactment.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think #3 is where the thrust of your argument is diminished, based on a suboptimal choice of language.

Mark does not need to exonerate himself. He is innocent until proven guilty.

However the suspicion of cheating is elevated when his employer, the same employer that has admitted to high level cheating, happens to have destroyed the hand histories -- in contravention of KGC regulations -- that would substantiate or disprove the allegations of cheating due to some ridiculously lame excuse.

A business operation based on a technological infrastructure won't pony up the cash to save HH and remain in good standing with their regulators, instead choosing to destroy the HH and risk massive fines (min $1000 per missing HH) and loss of its gaming license.

If this were a publicly traded company the securities class action lawyers would be salivating over this act of gross negligence alone.