Unconstitutional history

[AlexM]

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Taking military action against the federal government is rebellion.

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So citizens have no recourse when the federal government attacks them?

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In 1860 (and ever since) elections were held as scheduled, office holders left when their terms expired and the Courts were open for business.

So why did the South have to resort to armed rebellion?

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Freedom.

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But yet the South wasn’t willing to extend this “freedom” to their slaves. What hypocrites you libertarians must be.


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Not forcing other people to abide by our beliefs is very consistant with libertarianism. Where's the hypocrisy?

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You don’t see a huge problem with enslaving human beings?

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I do. I also see a huge problem with invading other countries to force my morals on them. It would be no different than say Iran invading someone to force Islam on them.

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The American South was the greatest slavocracy ever known to human history. The South could hardly have been fighting on behalf of liberty and freedom.

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None of that is relevant.

[AlexM]

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Depends on your definition of unconstitutional. Do you mean when the executive branch dissobeys the rulings of the court, like when Lincoln suspended habeus corpus?

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Or Lincoln's undeclared invasion and conquest of a foreign country.

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The South was not a foreign country, although I wish it had been treated as such after it lost the rebellion.


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Yes. It was.

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Only in your delusional mind.

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I'm convinced!

[flaja]

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1. Pvn is not registered to vote.

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Then what business does he have to be here wasting our time with his opinions on politics?

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2. When I registered to vote in Florida, I took no such oath. Has it changed in the last 15 years?

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I've been registered to vote in Florida since 1986.

http://election.dos.state.fl.us/regtovote/regform.shtml

“Notice: In order to register to vote in Florida, a citizen must swear or affirm an oath and sign the voter registration application.”

The oath is required item #16 on the PDF voter registration form:

http://election.dos.state.fl.us/regt...webappform.pdf

“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will protect and defend the Constitution of the United States…”

Are you sure that you are registered to vote in Florida?

[TomCollins]

The same business you have here trolling. In fact, a lot more.

[Taso]

The only people who are allowed to have opinions on politics are registered US voters?

I'd much rather discuss the Constitution with someone who is well versed in it, than about 95% of registered American voters.

[AlexM]

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1. Pvn is not registered to vote.

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Then what business does he have to be here wasting our time with his opinions on politics?

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2. When I registered to vote in Florida, I took no such oath. Has it changed in the last 15 years?

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I've been registered to vote in Florida since 1986.

http://election.dos.state.fl.us/regtovote/regform.shtml

“Notice: In order to register to vote in Florida, a citizen must swear or affirm an oath and sign the voter registration application.”

The oath is required item #16 on the PDF voter registration form:

http://election.dos.state.fl.us/regt...webappform.pdf

“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will protect and defend the Constitution of the United States…”

Are you sure that you are registered to vote in Florida?

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Yes, I did in 1992, although I haven't lived there in 10 years. I never swore any oath, however I do also consider "swearing an oath" to require a verbal statement. It's certainly possible that I signed a contract to uphold the Constitution.

Shrug, I don't particularly care since I uphold the Constitution anyway. It's sad to see you violating that "oath" though. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[Luxoris]

"Then what business does he have to be here wasting our time with his opinions on politics?"

If his lack of registration is ideologically driven he certainly has more right to post than some of the hypocrites that proselytize here.

[flaja]

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NY doesn't have that "oath" either...

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I wonder why?

Mario Cuomo

Geraldine Ferraro

Hillary Clinton

‘Nuff said.

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Anyways, I believe the real problem here is that OP is for some reason trying to mix two threads together, or trying to make a point about another thread in this thread.

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The issue of what is and is not constitutional is related to the issue of whether or not there is any original intent. I don’t think original intent really exists, but, I didn't want one discussion to be buried by another.

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Flaja, you raised a question here, what has the government done that is unconstitutional, and you've been given several specific instances that you aren't refuting.

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With the possible exception of the Alien and Sedition Acts (which few people who could have had any original intent bothered to object to), the examples given were not really unconstitutional.

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It's sort of unclear as to what the purpose of this thread is.

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To illustrate that unconstitutionality is often just a matter of opinion.

The fight between Hamilton and Jefferson over the Bank is a prime example. If such a thing as original intent really exists (and assuming that one need not have had any role in preparing the Constitution to have an original intent for it), we should expect original intent to be constant from person to person. But Hamilton and Jefferson had original intents that were polar opposites. So having an original intent for the Constitution does not mean that your original intent is correct.

[John Kilduff]

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If the federal government were ever to become the sole judge of the limits of its own powers through its own courts, then there would eventually be no limits to those powers and the Constitution would effectively become a dead letter.

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You are going to take advice on freedom and liberty from a rapist who owned his fellow human beings as slaves?

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Strawman. The quote didn't say anything about freedom and liberty. Stop trolling.

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Funny that OP probably takes his cues on civil rights from a man who was repeatedly unfaithful to his wife.

I despise this argument.. No man is perfect, why do people find it necessary to attack character, rather than ideas. I'm no GW fan, but I can honestly say, I've never resorted to the "cocaine" argument against him. I can argue against his ideas, and insult his intelligence, without taking personal shots at his past.

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Since when is a man’s personal behavior not illustrative of his character? Thomas Jefferson was a moral reprobate. Why should anyone take his advice on anything?

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Ad hominem fallacy.

[John Kilduff]

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1. Pvn is not registered to vote.

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Then what business does he have to be here wasting our time with his opinions on politics?

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Ad hominem-type argument #2 from you (if not more).

Since when is "being registered to vote" a prerequisite for discussing politics ?????????????????????????????????