KK deep against an over aggro buffoon

criminaldave · #1 10-26-2007, 11:24 AM

This one from a few days ago.

Villain is 33/22. He got his big stack before I arrived but has been playing poorly. He tends to bet the flop hard. Shut down on the turn. If he gets to the river he ratches up the aggression, usually by shoving. His aggression stats for the flop/turn/river are 3.5/0.2/4.5. He is not playing well and is generally using his stack to shove all in when it is not really necessary to do so. Should he stick around long enough it is a matter of time before he leaves the table broke. His range on the flop includes flush draws, straight draws, top pair+ or small over pairs. I was perfectly happy to get it in on the flop against this guy. Is it still okay to do so on the turn or should I check behind with the prospect of a push coming on the river?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (4 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|saw showdown

UTG ($567.80)
Hero ($493.65)
SB ($397.65)
BB ($55.10)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG raises to $8, Hero raises to $28, 2 folds, UTG calls $20.

Flop: ($59) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $46, UTG raises to $100, Hero raises to $224, UTG calls $124.

Turn: ($507) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero ?

Suigin406 · #2 10-26-2007, 11:27 AM

y not just shove flop if ur gonna put in that extra raise on the flop??

i know the board is drawy and of his image, but i'm pretty sure ur dead here after he calls that last raise

nazahl · #3 10-26-2007, 11:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]
y not just shove flop if ur gonna put in that extra raise on the flop??

[/ QUOTE ]

yea seriously.

[ QUOTE ]
know the board is drawy and of his image, but i'm pretty sure ur dead here after he calls that last raise

[/ QUOTE ]

ehh weaker overpairs are still in his range as well as [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] draws, we only got a 1/2 pot bet left. i'd just say [censored] it and shove the turn.

Suigin406 · #4 10-26-2007, 11:33 AM

oh yea, of course we have to stick it in there at this point...

i figure if he has clubs, he just sticks it in on flop tho...

dave, flop shove after his raise makes our hand look way more bluffy than an actual flop 4bet, which gives away our hand

criminaldave · #5 10-26-2007, 12:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
y not just shove flop if ur gonna put in that extra raise on the flop??

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't shove the flop because I didn't want him to get away from a hand like 99 easily. I know that a flop push looks more bluffy on my part but I'm not so sure he was sufficiently aware of that sort of thought process. I'm pretty sure he said "zomg, i have xx therefore i must.." I think his calling range of my reraise there includes hands as little as TPTK. Seriously. However, I don't think he calls a shove with that.

Suigin406 · #6 10-26-2007, 12:16 PM

no way, the reason we shove a lot of flops is because it looks bluffy to the dumb players a lot, the actual 4bet looks strong tho imo

criminaldave · #7 10-26-2007, 12:19 PM

So, do you think I'm toast on that flop given the action? What do you think his check means on the turn?

Suigin406 · #8 10-26-2007, 01:05 PM

it means he's waiting for u to bet, he's never folding after the flop action

HoldEmNewby · #9 10-26-2007, 01:11 PM

i think his check is just him checking to the aggressor, with only a 1/2 pot bet remaining you have to just bet and get the money in with your overpair.

flop i would have rather just mini bet to $200 rather than $224 (as it looks more bluffy). Ideally i would have 3bet to $300 because he is def. pot committed at that point.

You do have a read that he'd stack off with an overpair,draw or combo draw here right?

criminaldave · #10 10-28-2007, 01:38 PM

we got it all in on the turn. He had QQ and mhig.