AP infinity plus one - New AP Statement

[Spiff]

^^nice

[Spiff]

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But has anyone considered that maybe someone else was using Mark's account with his permission?


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27.juli ,ap email:
We contacted our promotions department and they informed us that steamroller belongs to the Absolute Poker Staff. For this reason, what he offered you is in legit.

Sincerely,
Team Absolute ~ Customer Support


-Spiff

[LuckyMux]

Josem,

You have, quite rightly, pointed out the flaws in 'the case against Mark Seif'. I want to thank you for being a most necessary devil's advocate. Seriously.

We disagree in the conclusions, sure. You are prepared to give Seif the benefit of the doubt, based on the 'hard' evidence or lack thereof. I'm not - I think he's guilty as sin. It's all opinion though.

I agree the available evidence probably wouldn't be 'enough to convict' in a court of law. And I also agree that, despite anyone's 'conclusions' or 'opinions', we live in an enlightened world where innocence is presumed.

With that in mind, you actually shame me sometimes. You do that 'Batman vs the howling mob' thing, using simple rules of evidence to show where a line must not be crossed. But you are absolutely right to do it, damn you.

I read your posts very carefully, and several times to be sure. Your arguments are routinely persuasive, scholarly and thought-provoking. (Ozzy Govt? You should be a barrister.)

I might not agree with your conclusions, but I cannot fault your reasoning. Respect is due.

[Matfrid]

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Okay, it's been pretty well-documented that certain accounts on AP have been "taken over" for periods of time. Whether they were used to cheat or for some other reason I can't figure out, I'm not sure. If you don't know what I'm talking about, just believe me when I say that I'm 100% sure it has happened.

But has anyone considered that maybe someone else was using Mark's account without his permission?

That would explain the whole "pulling out the secret weapon one time" theory. It might also explain the session that dean has been wondering about (his own v Seif).

I'm just throwing the idea out there... pure speculation.

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What is needed is an investigation of old hand histories. An expert auditor could to this.

There has been a focus on hard evidence lately that is just too narrow when one is considering accusations. It's like saying OJ Simpson can't be found innocent of murder, no, as there is no proof, he must be innocent of running a red light.

That hand histories are conveniently not available beyond the date of the know hole card exploit, has been used by many here as an argument for giving up all suspicions in the matter. I find this naive. It is naturally a cause for rising suspicions.

The pattern of planting information in the forum to see if people will accept it is still repeated, and there has been nothing from Absolute to break this pattern. Will we accept that 'oops we deleted all old hand histories'? It still looks like they are bargaining with someone with the forum reactions as a testbed for the deal.

[N 82 50 24]

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I am just throwing out ideas, I am not convinced that he did or did not cheat.

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Nat, what do you think about Seif denying that he saw clear evidence of cheating in the POTRIPPER tournament?

He lies through his teeth even in the face of UNDENIABLE evidence.

He is a joke.

He would have no moral qualms about cheating if he was convinced he would not get caught.

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I actually think that his comments on the POTRIPPER tournament as shown in the PXF replayer are by far the most damning against him. He had to have known there was cheating going on, so any words that he said indicating otherwise are relatively certain to be a lie. Regardless of what people think of Seif's online cash game skills, he's done some impressive things in tournament poker over the last few years and he must have at least a good understanding of tournament poker.

[ikestoys]

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Does AP actually set aside the total amount of their customers balances in some secure bank account somewhere, like other sites do?

I was just thinking they must be hemorrhaging cash right now paying back what they owe from what they stole, as well as added expenses stemming from this catastrophe.

I wonder if theres any assurance that their customers balances are safe and secure?

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According to their website, the accounts are held separately in an European bank. I've managed to get my money out and I haven't heard of anyone else having problems.

[ikestoys]

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the pot is 600 going into the river and potripper overbets a ton then folds..THE GRINDER - Checks
DOUBLEDRAG - Bets $5550
THE GRINDER - All-In(Raise) $5640 to $5640
DOUBLEDRAG - Folds
THE GRINDER - returned ($90) : not called

Showdown:
THE GRINDER - Does not show
THE GRINDER Collects $11758 from main pot

SUMMARY:
Total Pot($11760) | Rake ($2)

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The grinder is not involved in this, he lost a lot of money in this scandal, maybe the most.

[mntbikr15]

ALL,

AP said somewhere that there were several cheating accounts that we had not discovered.

They have also told some players that the accounts whose winnings were being refunded consisted of steamroller, greycat, and doubledrag(this is cash games I assume).

Seems like they are no ignoring what they said.

Anyone of you people with inside info know what these other accounts are?

[N 82 50 24]

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the pot is 600 going into the river and potripper overbets a ton then folds..THE GRINDER - Checks
DOUBLEDRAG - Bets $5550
THE GRINDER - All-In(Raise) $5640 to $5640
DOUBLEDRAG - Folds
THE GRINDER - returned ($90) : not called

Showdown:
THE GRINDER - Does not show
THE GRINDER Collects $11758 from main pot

SUMMARY:
Total Pot($11760) | Rake ($2)

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The grinder is not involved in this, he lost a lot of money in this scandal, maybe the most.

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I didn't see if someone posted this already but...

The Grinder = DumpingKGB on Stars. I think his name is Kyle and I met him at the last PCA.

[N 82 50 24]

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ALL,

AP said somewhere that there were several cheating accounts that we had not discovered.

They have also told some players that the accounts whose winnings were being refunded consisted of steamroller, greycat, and doubledrag(this is cash games I assume).

Seems like they are no ignoring what they said.

Anyone of you people with inside info know what these other accounts are?

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I was told something along the lines of "there were two more accounts that were not mentioned" that were also involved in cheating. I never heard the names specifically.