Worst hand i've played in a while, 2 pair in a 3bet pot, need help.

[STARSCREAM.]

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So STARS and ron both play the hand the same way as OP?

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Considering I am the OP, I would say so [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] despite my post title, after discussing the hand, I feel a lot better about the hand in general.

Not as a disrespect to those who posted here whom of which I didn't agree with, I appreciate your opinions as well.

[bingrich]

Why do you feel so bad about the hand then if this is a normal part of your game?

[bingrich]

ok, nm

[orange]

PF standard, I don't really think that anything else can be an option.

Bet the flop.

You aren't going to get any more value from QQ/JJ. Those hands almost always check behind and give up to any resistance. Sure, you'll sometimes find the whackos who go crazy postflop as a bluff, but meh.

There is still value to gain with a flop bet- plenty of worse hands call. Checking and possibly c/r-ing AI is not a bad idea as well if he's super aggro.

So, in summary, bet the flop. Given that you didn't, you are now forced to play a guessing game on villan's range OOP in a rr-ed pot, that isn't fun. Narrowing a looser villan's range strictly to premiums is laughable. After the flop check, I would lead this turn a ton, hoping to gain value from lesser hands/draws/etc. Given that you didn't bet the turn...

I would probably c/c this river. It's possible villan is still betting many hands here. Yeah, it's also possible he's taking us to valuetown, but I can't fold this hand given villan description/given action thus far.

[bingrich]

Obviously I agree with orange. As I said in my first post and orange repeated, one of the big reasons to lead out at this flop is being oop. Once we check we're in an oop guessing game against a loose villain and more prone to making a mistake.

I understand we didn't "shutdown" but I think it's understandable that depending on the villain, our line could be perceived as weak/scared of the board. Because of this we can be switched from "extraction" mode to "crying call" mode as orange is saying. We want worse hands to give us action, but when they show more strength than we're comfortable with then we're stuck. If we don't show strength postflop, can we really be sure we're beat when villain bets? But when we checked multiple times didn't we want action from worse hands anyway? This seems like a really tough spot to put oneself in. Of course it depends on how bluff happy villain is.

Personally, my game isn't good enough at this point to do this juggling act. I sincerely give you props if you can do this consistently.

[slush420]

Board: Ks Ac 9c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 60.745% 54.45% 06.29% 26955 3114.00 { AhQd }
Hand 1: 39.255% 32.96% 06.29% 16317 3114.00 { 77+, AJs+, KQs, AQo+ }

this is why you bet the flop. you are likely ahead and it's time to protect now. I think this would be a reasonable range for villain calling a 3bet preflop esp if he's a frequent stealer and faces 3 bets often.

[Profish2285]

Im glad Im not the only one who thinks betting this flop is standard.

[Baintz]

Yeah, I'm betting this flop too as wer're OOP and I think his pf calling range is wider than you suggest. I see what I assume to be standard TAGS calling pre w JTs, 87s etc a lot.

[Somnius]

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Im glad Im not the only one who thinks betting this flop is standard.

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Definately agree.

Doesn't matter what I had on this flop after 3 betting preflop, this is a beautiful board, I'd gladly c-bet, the fact that you hit, you should be very eager to not only c-bet, but get a call, tons of calling hands in his range, not withstanding AT, AJ, KJ, KQ, midpairs etc that will call the flop to see what you do on the turn since they have position and the pot is big... you have to bet this.

[STARSCREAM.]

Since nobody followed it up with a plan for the rest of the hand, what do you do if he shoves/raises your flop cbet?

What if he calls and the turn is a: Q, J, or a brick?