Bluffing for pot after whiffed draw

Zizz · #1 03-17-2006, 03:28 PM

This isn't a move I make often. Maybe once or twice a year. This was a $33 two-table.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (4 handed) converter

SB (t1355)
BB (t10625)
UTG (t7425)
Hero (t7595)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls t200, Hero calls t200, 1 fold, BB checks.

Flop: (t675) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG bets t800, Hero calls t800, BB folds.

Turn: (t2275) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets t1000, Hero calls t1000.

River: (t4275) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets t5570 (All-In)

Final Pot: t15245

I limp in with a suited ace after UTG limps, this seems pretty standard. I pick up my draw on the flop and face a solid bet. I feel I'm being offered nice implied odds if he was looking to limp raise a big pp. I could have reasoned out folding on the turn since it's starting to put a significant dent in my stack but I still feel I'm getting his whole stack if a spade rolls off. Now on the river even though I whiff again he checks rather quickly. My whole line of thinking changes. My instincts tell me he doesn't have anything and his surrendering after firing two shots. My line could be easily seen as a set and I feel he doesn't have enough hand or any at all to call the river bet.
Thought's on this? I felt like it was an interesting hand.

seke2 · #2 03-17-2006, 03:38 PM

UTG played this hand weirdly. But your bluff is pretty gutsy the 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] doesn't really complete any draws for hands that legitimately got this far except for T9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. I think he could call you with something like A8, K8, 99 here, you'd probably have raised the turn if you had a queen.

I'd probably have raised the flop here if I wanted to bluff on this hand.

Zizz · #3 03-17-2006, 03:42 PM

After thinking over the hand. I thought the turn could possibly be a better spot to bluff for the pot. But I'm not positive. What makes the flop a better spot than the turn.

seke2 · #4 03-17-2006, 03:45 PM

Because on the flop, you very likely have something in the neighborhood of 50% equity, and thus will be putting more money in when you are not making a pure bluff, but rather a semi-bluff.

The turn would have been an interesting bluff, I'm not sure how how you represent a queen. You have to remember that you called an overbet on the flop, and you need to think about what hands would have legitimately called a flop overbet.

Zizz · #5 03-17-2006, 03:49 PM

Ok I understand what your saying.
It was an odd hand. My intentions weren't to bluff for this pot. I just felt like he was leaving the door open on the river and changed my plans. But like your saying I didn't take into account how my actions did not really add up and looked fishy.

seke2 · #6 03-17-2006, 03:54 PM

Well, what hand would you legitimately play like this, other than a weirdly played flopped set? You'd value bet the river, and I don't know if you can argue that this push is a value bet.

I don't think it's a bad bluff necessarily, but if I'm Villain, I'm willing to call you down with 2nd pair, good kicker. I imagine you should be able to get anything worse than A8/K8 to fold, including a lot of hands that are beating you. I just think you had better opportunities to bluff at this pot on earlier streets.

Interesting hand, though. I was gonna say fold preflop, but 4-handed you can play this. Might want to consider a preflop raise though, A4s on the button would be worth a raise to me on the depth on these stacks relative to the blinds.

Zizz · #7 03-17-2006, 04:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Interesting hand, though. I was gonna say fold preflop, but 4-handed you can play this. Might want to consider a preflop raise though, A4s on the button would be worth a raise to me on the depth on these stacks relative to the blinds.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yea i contemplated a raise. Not sure why I ended up limping. I was playing a pretty aggressive bubble game so felt like slowing down preflop a bit. But regardless, raise would have been good but the limp isn't horrible either.

Leo Bello · #8 03-17-2006, 04:08 PM

You should have gotten the hand before with a raise on turn to know where you stood and make value for you river bet in case your draw completed.
Bluffing on the river is risky cause you do have a nice stack to keep going and you will get called only by hands that sure beat you. But, I think it was not a bad bluff. The only problem is he doesn´t fear something in this hand. there is no obvious draw that you could have hit. J9 is improbable and I guess he won´t fold thinking on that. You not raising makes him not think you have an overpair. Two pair is also not in question.

Zizz · #9 03-17-2006, 04:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You should have gotten the hand before with a raise on turn to know where you stood and make value for you river bet in case your draw completed.

[/ QUOTE ]

You say raise the turn. What makes you want to raise the turn instead of finding out where your at on the flop?

runout_mick · #10 03-17-2006, 06:17 PM

I don't like the call on the flop unless you think bb will come along, and we have no evidence of this. My default would be to raise, or fold. To me his overbet "feels" weak (can we say missed overcards?), and I raise to 2000 or so. This bet means that if he calls, we have enough behind that our turn push (if we choose to push) is close to pot size.

Honestly, I don't think we get to the turn.

The way the hand actually played, if I'm villain I checked the river to get a busted draw to bluff.

Thanks for bluffing...