A raise behind you

[Humphrey]

OK let's say that you get a hand like like ATo in a full ring limit game in middle position and you call. Then someone raises behind you. According to the chart in GSIH if it was raised when it got to me, I should have folded but what about when I already called and it was raised behind me and is one more bet to me. Do I call or Fold?

Are there any rules or guidelines as to how to make this decision. What are the factors I need to consider (Assume I do not have any PT stats showing in a HUD)?


Humphrey

[SheridanCat]

There's a pretty simple rule for this. If you limp and it's raised behind you - and it comes back to you for a single bet - then you should call. You're getting proper pot odds to continue.

If it comes back to you for more than one bet, then you would use the standard cold-call rules to determine if you should call. Often you'll fold here.

Regards,

T

[bernie]

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OK let's say that you get a hand like like ATo in a full ring limit game in middle position and you call.

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Limit game? I can't remember the last time I limped with ATo in that spot.

b

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

First and foremost ATo in MP in a limit game is a clear raise/fold decision.

[Humphrey]

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OK let's say that you get a hand like like ATo in a full ring limit game in middle position and you call.

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Limit game? I can't remember the last time I limped with ATo in that spot.

b

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According to GSIH on page 108, ATo in Middle Position in an unraised pot is a call.

This is where I got the ATo from.

Humphrey

[Texibus]

you should muck your hand. Also, i think A,10o is a little weak to be playing from middle position in a full 10 person ring game. The reason you're are mucking your hand is because if by some chance you hit your ace on the flop you're likely playing against a much stonger ace that's raised. Ypu're saving money in the long run by folding this hand. The only hand you can normally call a raise behind you with is A,qo maybe and you need to have a read on the player to see if he's a habitual blind stealer or something, this could also be good thing for a call with a ace,10 but i wouldn't try it to often till you get very very familiar with how to play after the flop.

[mosta]

leaving aside the issue of limping ATo, let me try to address the post flop part of your question. when you get raise or reraised with your ATo, you have to fear that you are against a better ace (who has position on you). you are going to see the flop for just one more bet almost automatically. at that point you're hoping much more for a ten-high flop than an ace-high flop. even better would be two-pair, but that will be rare. if the flop does come ace high, that's when you have to decide based on your read of your opponent and of your image. if villain is lose and aggressive enough, but less than a maniac, you can check and call the ace-high board all the way. that costs you 2.5 bets. you'd rather find a cheaper way to convince yourself it is likely enough he has a better ace that you can fold. one way is to check raise the flop and lead the turn, intending not to put any more money in the pot (without improving). that only costs you 2 bets. if villain is a little tighter, check-call flop, lead (ie, donk) the turn with that being the last you put in might be enough. that's only 1.5 bets. with a predictable enough opponent you might even be able to lead the flop and fold to a raise. (bet the turn if called, fold to a raise, and then figure out whehter to bet the river.)

you get the idea. 2.5 bets at worse, hopefully cheaper. one thing you can't really ever do though, even against the tightest villain is just check-fold and ace high flop. you've got to make some effort to play your top pair.

[ottsville]

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you should muck your hand. Also, i think A,10o is a little weak to be playing from middle position in a full 10 person ring game. The reason you're are mucking your hand is because if by some chance you hit your ace on the flop you're likely playing against a much stonger ace that's raised

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It is definitely possble that you are up against a stronger A, but you could also be up against a large variety of hands even if your opponent plays a standard game(99+,KQ) that make this a call. Folding AT for one bet back to you because your opponent may have AK,AQ,AJ is weak play.

Mosta's advice is goot, and prob standard line.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

I really hate open limping in MP. A hand like ATo basically wants few opponents. If the players behind me tend to be aggressive, I fold it, if they tend to be timid, I raise it.

If there's already a call, I'd rather fold it for 2 reasons. In a typical LP game, limpers beget limpers and ATo can be tough in multiway pots, and if it's raised behind me, I have to call for pot odds but have a high probability of being dominated by the raiser.