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#31
10-23-2007, 01:00 PM
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Re: I\'m not one to make big folds...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I do not see him bluffing really ever either. [/ QUOTE ] Then... oh, I don't know... fold? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] Seems by a mile the strongest argument so far. Whats the point in this read ? [/ QUOTE ] orange is obviously asking about how often villain is value-betting worse here, which is a good question. I think he's value-betting worse less often than he's valuebetting better, but it is close. [/ QUOTE ] Well, how often is a solid villain who rarely 3-bets (see read) showing up with KJ, which is an awful 3-betting hand, and then firing 3 times with it? 
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#32
10-23-2007, 01:03 PM
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Re: I\'m not one to make big folds...
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does anyone like raising flop? or the turn? i'm not a huge fan of calling 3 streets on this board. if i called turn planning to call that river, then why not just shove the turn??? [/ QUOTE ] Folding turn is actually reasonable. Calling is simply to hope river goes check/check. Shoving the turn against this Villain seems like huge spew. Always called by better hands, rarely by worse, etc.
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#37
10-23-2007, 02:21 PM
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Re: I\'m not one to make big folds...
This seems like a very close decision to me and one that is only going to be swung either way by having a decent read, where here it seems like we do not have. He is never value-betting worse here unless he is crazy (or possibly betting thinly with KJ or a chopping KQ - but these hands are quite a small part of his range), and there are quite a few hands he can have to beat us - AK, 99, Axcc and a few suited connectors with clubs.
So what it boils down to pretty much is does he have a pure bluff the required amount of the time enough to make the call profitable vs a range of hands that beat us and air? I really can't see this type of player 3betting preflop and then bluffing every street on this board, especially since most of his range given preflop is either hands that beat us, or hands he doesn't want to turn into a bluff and wants to get to showdown with. Another reason I think a fold is probably good is the amount he is shoving on the river. Yes, it is only a little over half pot, so we are getting very good odds with trips to call here. However, he probably knows this - can he really expect you to fold much when you have already called 3 barrels and only have to call a little over half-pot on this river? I think he is value shoving better too often on this river and giving up with his air sensing you aren't folding to a shove very often.
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#38
10-23-2007, 02:37 PM
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Re: I\'m not one to make big folds...
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[ QUOTE ] i folded the turn. [/ QUOTE ] Good input. If im calling the turn I'm prob not folding the river , but I'm prob not calling the turn anyway, I'm raising AI. Is raising the turn better than smooth calling? Looks like it to me there are two fd's [/ QUOTE ] I folded the turn because two barrels here means AK at least IMO (i play this game but have no idea who orange is lol) and FD's arent played like this on ap. Add to that we are deep and calling a lot of turns forces us to call big river bets IMO, so we fold turn. In fact, orange is this me?
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#39
10-23-2007, 02:38 PM
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Re: I\'m not one to make big folds...
honestly i really don't think this is that close but I don't know how the games play on AP so I could be wrong. the turn is not a good card to fire a second barrel on to begin with, and the river completes a draw so its a pretty bad card to bluff shove a third barrel. there's no way he's trying to fold out a flush or Kx which are much larger parts of ur range than a hand like TT-QQ.
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