Nl50 - QQ getting raised

[ChulioBarth]

Let's assume we're new to the table and all players are unknown. What do you do here and how would the situation change if you hold 77-JJ or KK and AA?

Maybe a noob question but I'm curious.

Titan Poker 0.25/0.50, hand converted by the iPoker Converter at Talking-Poker

Button ($72.24)
SB ($94.37)
BB ($63.90)
UTG ($30.95)
UTG+1 Hero ($78.35)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG calls 0.50, Hero raises to 2.00, Button calls 2.00, 1 fold, BB calls 1.50, UTG calls 1.50.

Flop (8.25) 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets 6.00, 1 fold, BB raises to 18.00, 1 fold, Hero ?

[wslee00]

situation doesn't really change no matter what pp you have here imo. He either has a set, made straight or some type of combo draw. fwiw, I don't usually see villains pushing hard w/ a combo draw @ 50NL, so I let him have it this time, but this maybe different at titan

[Dunkman]

Wow really? Considering 77-JJ could be in villain's range, as well as a flush draw, I don't think I could just give up here because he raised our cbet. I'm not sure if I'm crazy about shoving this deep, but I would at least call his flop bet.

[wslee00]

and what do you do when he inevitably bets the turn?

you need to make your decision on the flop on whether you're going to commit all your chips or not. That doesn't necessarily mean getting it all-in on the flop, but you should be willing to felt here if you call this flop.

[Profish2285]

I am shoving this flop. Yes a set is definitely in his range, but so is 77-1010, maybe even a poorly played JJ. It could be a nut flush draw, or even a regular flush draw. This board looks like one that you have not hit, so many times people will not give your c-bet respect here anyway. Table dynamics really make a difference here tho. If you have been raising a decent amount then its a snap call, if you havent played a hand in 4 orbits it might be a fold but even then Im not sure I could toss it to an unknown. The board is very wet and ragged, dont underestimate how poorly people play. Besides, say you were villain with 99 here. You wouldnt raise a villains c-bet on this flop?

[wslee00]

[ QUOTE ]
Besides, say you were villain with 99 here. You wouldn't raise a villains c-bet on this flop?

[/ QUOTE ]
no - that essentially turns our hand into a bluff

I'd probably call the flop, lead a non-A turn

[bung]

[ QUOTE ]
Let's assume we're new to the table and all players are unknown. What do you do here and how would the situation change if you hold 77-JJ or KK and AA?

[/ QUOTE ]

JJ-AA I can usually stack of here. Maybe even w/TT. 77-99 is a bit diff because villain also has OCs in his range here, and so your equity is not as good. You're very much ahead here even w/combos and sets in his range.

Board: 3c 6c 2d
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 67.144% 66.50% 00.65% 28308 275.00 { QhQs }
Hand 1: 32.856% 32.21% 00.65% 13712 275.00 { JJ-66, 33-22, AcKc, Ac4c, KcJc, 5c4c }

[Schiester]

This situation seems to have been coming up alot for me lately. Imo. I would be really interested in villans stats (namely flop AF) before committing myself to any decision.

Very general but I would tend to shove if villan has high AF or fold>>>call(reassess turn) if villan has low flop AF.

With high flop AF 44,55,77-TT/ strong draws makes up a big part of this guys range (depending on pf stats of course). He's calling a shove often enough with an overpair and I'm wanting to charge him right out of a draw on this flop.

...I'm actually wondering if a call is ever really appropriate on this board?

[Schiester]

Actually, maybe a sizeable 3bet is more appropriate than a shove on this flop.

In the scenario where we're not folding of course.