KK out of position against large river raise

morberg · #1 10-22-2007, 06:09 PM

Opponent is unknown. Here's my thinking.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($113.45)
Hero ($97.85)
BB ($88.73)
UTG ($127.87)
MP ($155.68)
CO ($121.76)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP raises to $4, 2 folds, Hero raises to $12, 1 fold, MP calls $8.

Standard.

Flop: ($25) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $15, MP calls $15.

Again, my continuation bet is standard. MP:s call is concerning, but doesn't have to mean anything. The board doesn't have any obvious draws out there, so this makes me wonder.

Turn: ($55) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP checks.

The pot is getting largish and I check to keep the pot size down. I don't want to get all my money in on the turn with KK unimproved.

River: ($55) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $20, MP raises to $80

On the river it gets interesting. I put out a value bet/stop bet (do I have to decide which it is - if so, its a stop bet) and MP puts in a rather large raise. Could he really have hit the flush? The only hand he can have that makes sense to me is AT of clubs (or possibly A8). Would he really check behind on the turn with a set? Or AA?

So - am I beat or am I getting bluffed? Easy fold or easy call? Should I have bet the turn? If so, how much?

VPIP100 · #2 10-22-2007, 06:12 PM

I dont like your play overall here.

Bet more on the flop, bet turn, as played I call river.

spivey · #3 10-22-2007, 06:13 PM

You played this so weak/tight. Bet flop a little more, and shove turn. This is the board you dream of when you 3 bet KK preflop.

As played, VB the river much bigger. As played, snap his river raise.

JFsports · #4 10-22-2007, 06:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't want to get all my money in on the turn with KK unimproved.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes you do

tony_montana · #5 10-22-2007, 06:15 PM

In a re raised pot it takes much more than this board to make me lay down Kings. Bet $18 on the flop and lead the turn hoping to get it in.

As played river is a fairly easy call.

AMT · #6 10-22-2007, 06:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't want to get all my money in on the turn with KK unimproved.

[/ QUOTE ]

...why?

after checking turn and the river bet sizing you're just in complete no mans land, theres no way to interpret this because of how softly the last two streets were played, so I'd call the way its gone down but its just a big whatever at this point. 3 bet more pf, and, in a 3 bet pot im happily getting it in vs lots of villains in this spot.

tubasteve · #7 10-22-2007, 06:16 PM

im calling the river becuase his range is like JJ-QQ almost every time i think. i cant see AA or a set checking hte turn, and backdoor clubs arent enough of a concern in a 3-bet pot.

regardless, checking the turn sucks, and the flop bet should be a little bigger.

edit: and yeah the pfr should probably be a little bigger, but i doubt the extra .50 to make it a PSR would matter much.

oh boy · #8 10-22-2007, 06:17 PM

ya you played this so weak I dont think you can fold the river.

morberg · #9 10-22-2007, 06:19 PM

What hand range do you put villain on?

smark102 · #10 10-22-2007, 06:19 PM

pot control is not to be considered on the turn. Stacks aren't huge and KK is far ahead of range. VB to extract from top pair or even most overpairs. River is tough, but if played turn better, decision is easier even if it is paying off a set.