Small MMT tourny question?

[PokherJoe]

I was playing in a local MMT tourney last week and I wanted to get some opinions on how a hand should have been played.

Set-up:

This is about a 5 table freezeout tournament where the blinds are very aggresive and the levels are 25 mins long.
It is the final table with 9 players left and the blinds are 3000-6000 (there was an ante, but at this time i cant remember what it was, most likely it was 500). I am 2nd in chips with about 60k. Even the chip leader is relativly short stacked at 80k. We are all in the money with the payout fairly top heavy.

I am in the BB with 10-7os and have been playing tight solid poker, the guy under the gun goes all in(someone I have never played with) and has less than the BB. It folds to the Button who calls the BB(I have played with this guy and he is very loose player, also he is 3rd in chips with about 45k in chips). The guy in the SB goes all in for 9,700. I decide the player on the button is not slow playing a premium hand, I moved in. After a relatively short consideration the limper on the button folds.

A regular Tournament player I respect looks at me like im off my rocker when he sees my hand, and asks why i didnt just call the extra 3,700 and check it down to try and eliminate one or both of the short stacks.

I doubt I have to explain my reasons for moving in, but i wanted to hear what u guys had to say.

On a side note the hands ended up being:
Guy under the gun- A3os
Guy on the Button- KJ os(folded preflop)
Guy in SB- A6os
(guy with A3 flopped 2 pair, but ended up chopping with A6 when board paired and kickers didnt play)

[Tackleberry]

I don´t like your line. You risk 2/3 of your stack for just filling the pot with one (!) BB of dead money - where you´re still up against two players? The increase of your chances by restricting the field to two opponents (instead of three) as well doesn´t make up for the risk you take. No good, sorry ... I have to agree with your mate, just call the couple extra chips and check the hand down.

[Dunkman]

You are playing to win, and folding the button increases your chance of winning this hand and getting the chips. I don't see a problem, he's just mad that you folded out his 2 live cards.

[PokherJoe]

Tackleberry i c your point, but when odds dictate a call irregardless of the 2 cards in my hand, and im about 90% sure the player on the button is going to fold, why risk more than the 3700 i have to call? Not to mention the player on the button is the type of player that would bet his position with no pair or a draw even against two all ins. If i flop middle or even top pair i am put to a tough decision if he decides to bet.

[Tackleberry]

I made a very (!!) rough calculation. Assuming that shorty shoves about 70%, Button calls about 30% and SB pushes about 60% you are a 18% favourite. When you get Button to fold, your chances increase up to 25%. This makes 7% or about 2.1k (of the pot). If you expect Button to call you in 10% of all cases (in which I expect you to be a 20% dog) you risk 0.1*35k*0.8 = 2.8k. This is clearly -EV, unless I have a mistake in my thinking.

[Pokerfarian]

[ QUOTE ]
I made a very (!!) rough calculation. Assuming that shorty shoves about 70%, Button calls about 30% and SB pushes about 60% you are a 18% favourite. When you get Button to fold, your chances increase up to 25%. This makes 7% or about 2.1k (of the pot). If you expect Button to call you in 10% of all cases (in which I expect you to be a 20% dog) you risk 0.1*35k*0.8 = 2.8k. This is clearly -EV, unless I have a mistake in my thinking.

[/ QUOTE ]
The extra chips you're risking are against solely the button & as such you're a lot less than a 20% dog

[hamnegger]

i flat call and i say "i call" as i look at the button staring at him to sought of tell him don't repop me either.

[PokherJoe]

Okay this is something that has been bothering me and I wanted to resolve it Mathmatically, but have been having issues figuring it multiway. If anyone can show me he steps to get to an EV in a multiway pot. Im still sticking to my guns that this was a better play than limping.

The closest i get(and im not even sure i am getting a correct number) is that in the pot with the 2 all ins I am a 2.3 to 1 dog to win the pot. Adding in the limper on the button is where i am having trouble figuring it.


Ill admit im wrong, you just have to prove it first

Oh btw Hamneggs the button as already made an action and since the all in is less than a full raise he cant repop me if i call the 3700.(he could if i made a value raise of 3x the bb or something...but that would be about as bad as just folding the hand with all the odds out there)

[Dunkman]

My range for button flat calling the UTG shove then calling a shove from us consists of one hand, AA. I think that with any other premium hands he's raising to isolate, so I think our shove folds him out like all the time. So, about 95% of the time we fold him and his dead money out, which is more monies for us.

[PokherJoe]

My thoughts excactly dunkman. Me likes dead money, cheap dead money at that