positional advantage vs. stack leverage.

[loosbastard]

[ QUOTE ]
you are like repping a narrow hand range (sets/sometimes Ks but there arent a tremendous amt of Ks in that range),

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorta true...but I don't think it matters a whole lot here. Unless he has you pegged as a floater, how much is he really gonna like 90% of his range when you flat this flop and bet turn/shove river? Obviously against some players it's no bueno...but against 95% of the regs at these stakes it's definitely profitable.

[DaycareInferno]

its not something i would get too carried away with, but i see absolutely no reason to to not raise a dry/semi-dry flop with air in a stack-bind situation at least as often as you would raise with a big hand.

lets say i was somehow able to perfectly sync the two frequencies so that i am raising with air in certain scenarios exactly as often as with huge hands. even if you knew exactly how i played, you would still be at a big disadvantage in a stack-bind situation with a marginal to strong hand, because when you guess right, you win about 1/3 the ammount that you lose when you guess wrong.

since we don't flop monsters all that often, we could be very selective about when to raise with air to match those frequencies. the question is, what scenarios are optimal?

[bilbo-san]

[ QUOTE ]
what hands can you really rep with a float here? seems like an awful board to do so with. you are like repping a narrow hand range (sets/sometimes Ks but there arent a tremendous amt of Ks in that range), and i would suspect you check behind with a decent number of made hands on the turn. (ie. weaker Ks, stuff like TT, etc).

raising too is an option, but this board is really [censored] to do so on. again, what real hands are you repping? sets and maybe AK. other than thatt, lol...not much. you have to think about the types of boards you want to make plays on and what type of opponent you are playing against.

if villan is nonthinking, then aggression for the hell of it is an okay plan sometimes. if he can't read hands for [censored] then sure, go ahead, float him. most players aren't really observing at the table much anyway and won't think to themselves 'oh, he's floating me, c/r his ass or double it'. instead, they just go through the same notion of c/f c/f c/f on the turn.

so, remember who you are playing and look for boards that are nice to bluff. generally against a cold call range, that means stuff like 783 with 2 hearts. or something like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously. Floating here is win-every-pot syndrome.

Give yourself a gutshot or SOMETHING. It's OK to just fold when you have complete snow. Even in position. Really, it is.

[sh58]

firstly you may often want to 3bet here as well

i think it all depends on your image and the board texture, here i think raising is best, because he has to fold unless he has TP+. and then the turn is pretty easy, you should only fire if you think he will fold a king. obviously you can't rep a wide range on this dry board, so you shouldn't always be raising this type of board, only occasionally.

floating is also good on dry flops, cos you can really rep a set well by raising over his turn bet, and taking it away if he checks. this is high risk and expensive though

draw heavier boards are more fun cos you can rep alot of things, but get less respect

i think just mixing it up is best

sorry my post has no direction [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[orange]

day,
as stated, against abc tags who don't really think about ranges at all, raising this flop can be really profitable. (ie. omg, he raised flop, he must have a set!11!). most players we play against will rarely have the amount of history/read to make this read anyhow so yeah, you can profitably raise this flop with alot. but when you go against regs who have alot of history/etc, then you might want to rethink things.

[W3rdy303]

Here is an example I just saw played at 10/20 NL by OtisRush...Well played monster committing the QK on the turn...

Nice insight in this thread, and clearly its been taken to high stakes as well..

MP = OtisRush

Full Tilt Poker, $10/$20 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

BB: $2,601
UTG: $1,960
MP: $5,007.50
CO: $3,393
BTN: $1,947
SB: $6,097

Pre-Flop:
<font color="red">UTG raises to $70</font>, MP calls $70, 4 folds

Flop: ($170) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">UTG bets $110</font>, <font color="red">MP raises to $500</font>, UTG calls $390

Turn: ($1,170) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
UTG checks, <font color="red">MP bets $4,437.50 and is All-In</font>, UTG calls $1,390 and is All-In

River: ($3,950) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

Results: $3,950 Pot ($3 Rake)
UTG showed Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (a pair of Kings) and LOST (-$1,960 NET)
MP showed A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (three of a kind, Aces) and WON $3,947 (+$1,987 NET)