5/10 - 10 handed - Q3s in BB against loose player and PFR - River Play - Page 2

Rico Suave · #11 10-19-2007, 09:13 AM

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No...and I can't imagine that many good players would want to play a hand like 84s/Q3s/T5s/J2s etc. after a TAG steal raise and a fishy SB coldcall.

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I don't claim to be good, and I don't know if or how profitable it is, but I call in this spot all the time.

--Rico

Rico Suave · #12 10-19-2007, 09:25 AM

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Regardless of your reasoning what you do you put CO on

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A flop check on that board is suspicious, but after the turn check, you gotta think he is got nada...or very little.

Given your read on SB, you have him beat most of the time, so I don't like a fold. I know it is easy to convince yourself that the Q is likely to touch a ton of hands that the CO would play like this (open raising from the CO and giving up on an ace high ragged flop), but I am gonna think that his range here is wide enough that he is not going hold a better queen often enough, nor is the pot large enough, to justify a river raise. Call, and fold if CO raised, and lose if he overcalls.

--Rico

SNOWBALL · #13 10-19-2007, 09:56 AM

fold preflop.

on the turn, you can take a stab at the pot.

On the river, you should probably just call. If the pot were a bit bigger, you could raise to make sure CO folds.
As it is, we are usually ahead of sb, but not a favorite when called.

I mean, you said sb bets any pair, which should mean that he either has a Q or has nothing.

SNOWBALL · #14 10-19-2007, 09:58 AM

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However, I'd put CO on a very wide range consisting of KQs all the way down to KQ.

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lol sarcasm? the typical CO should have a lot more than that.
If that's the entire range we are putting him on, our play is 100% to raise river.

SNOWBALL · #15 10-19-2007, 10:04 AM

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Furthermore, this starting hand is especially meh because you have virtually no chance to win by making a pair with your crappy kicker.

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???????

When we hit a Q on the flop, we will OFTEN win, though it will not be easy to get good value out of the hand, and WHEN bets DO go in, we won't be in very good shape.

However the MAIN prob with Q2s is that we really only have one card to hit. The deuce is worth very little to us. We won't with the Q very often, and when we do, it is far from a monster.

"kicker trouble" is only a small part of why Q2s sucks.

chesspain · #16 10-19-2007, 10:27 AM

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Furthermore, this starting hand is especially meh because you have virtually no chance to win by making a pair with your crappy kicker.

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???????

However the MAIN prob with Q2s is that we really only have one card to hit. The deuce is worth very little to us.

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This is what I meant in the statement above--although I should have typed it as "you have virtually no chance to win by making a pair from your crappy kicker."

chesspain · #17 10-19-2007, 10:29 AM

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No...and I can't imagine that many good players would want to play a hand like 84s/Q3s/T5s/J2s etc. after a TAG steal raise and a fishy SB coldcall.

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I don't claim to be good, and I don't know if or how profitable it is, but I call in this spot all the time.

--Rico

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Keep in mind that the raiser opened from the CO, meaning that his range is somewhat narrower than if he was in the CO or Button.

Rico Suave · #18 10-19-2007, 10:40 AM

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No...and I can't imagine that many good players would want to play a hand like 84s/Q3s/T5s/J2s etc. after a TAG steal raise and a fishy SB coldcall.

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I don't claim to be good, and I don't know if or how profitable it is, but I call in this spot all the time.

--Rico

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Keep in mind that the raiser opened from the CO, meaning that his range is somewhat narrower than if he was in the CO or Button.

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very true.

But online 5/10 guys still tend to be pretty aggro in this spot. Versus guys who aren't so aggressive in steal situations, I would fold my crappy suited hands here.

But again, I suck, and i have the sucky BB win rate to prove it. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

-Rico

James. · #19 10-19-2007, 10:54 AM

i would call preflop. we have good position to c/r the pfr and sb if we catch a flop to our liking(fd, trips, two pair, etc.).

i would check the flop.

i would probably consider a bet on the turn. i don't think it's the obviously superior play, but i think frequently enough we steal the pot or get it HU with sb who often has an unpaired suited connector below our Qhigh. it would certainly be a stronger play if the pot was larger. in addition if CO has Khigh or a better Queen he will often be forced to fold. maybe even a low pp.

i would probably fold the river. we're getting 4-1 but if i understand correctly he's betting a Queen, right? i mean, he's not up and betting a flopped 6 NOW is he? so if he is betting a queen, it is most certainly better than the one we hold. not to mention some decent portion of the time CO raises and then we're looking at as high as 8-1 closing the acion with second pair. if i am incorrect on my assessment of sb(i.e. he is easily betting less than a queen here), i might reevaluate and go for an overcall from the CO. i'm close to never raising.

chesspain · #20 10-19-2007, 01:36 PM

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i would call preflop. we have good position to c/r the pfr and sb if we catch a flop to our liking(fd, trips, two pair, etc.).

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Ah...this could apply to any potential call from the BB with nearly any two cards vs. a steal raise and an SB call--however, it doesn't mean we are getting the right price for the cards we are holding.