Getting Killed in Vegas 2/4 Games and Can't Find a Way Out

[One Outer]

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So I have the book and I've read about half of it (I am a fast reader) and I'm making a cheat sheet as I go to get laminated.

I still don't think I played that hand as badly as you all make out. Yes, I lost. Yes, it cost me but it's not like I checked the damn thing to the river.

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It is obvious to respected posters in this thread that:
a. You dont understand basic gambling and poker-related concepts.

and

b. That you played the example hand poorly.

You can disagree, but people who play higher and have more experience seem to think you are wrong. If you want advice great, but it seems to me like you either want pity for your bad luck or you are already expert (miles ahead of us) and we would only hold you back.

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Okay - flame me if you want. I can take it, because of course everyone here is a winner 100% of the time. I am being honest and saying I need help, and you flame me. Fine.

I am saying that some people are making out that I played that hand so badly that it defied belief - I know I played it badly, I have tried to expand on the situation but if you are really that damn good you will know that every hand is not cut in black and white, right?

I am asking for help and taking that advice and using it. I am not asking for flames nor posts stroking your own e-peen because you think I do not understand odds, outs, implied odds, ev and so on. I'm not a complete beginner and I've done well in various casino games and tournaments in the UK for a long time. The major difference in Europe is the stakes (pot limit as opposed to Limit) and most of all the players - Vegas is pretty wild when you live here.

I'm not used to limit and it's hit me square between the eyes. I'm humble enough to admit that and you flame me. GG I guess. I bow down to your superior knowledge. /sigh



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Calm down dude. I know where you're coming from to an extent. Some of the posters around here can have a condescending tone from time to time. It sucks, and it's not your fault; it's them. I think for a lot of people when you spend enough time doing something it's easy to get into a headspace where you can forget to be nice, especially to the noobs. They don't mean to make you feel bad.

However, this does not mean they are wrong. This thread does suggest that there are some fundamental concepts you don't understand yet. So read SSHE slowly, take notes, then read it again.

Good luck [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[MitchL]

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So I have the book and I've read about half of it (I am a fast reader) and I'm making a cheat sheet as I go to get laminated.

I still don't think I played that hand as badly as you all make out. Yes, I lost. Yes, it cost me but it's not like I checked the damn thing to the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is obvious to respected posters in this thread that:
a. You dont understand basic gambling and poker-related concepts.

and

b. That you played the example hand poorly.

You can disagree, but people who play higher and have more experience seem to think you are wrong. If you want advice great, but it seems to me like you either want pity for your bad luck or you are already expert (miles ahead of us) and we would only hold you back.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay - flame me if you want. I can take it, because of course everyone here is a winner 100% of the time. I am being honest and saying I need help, and you flame me. Fine.

I am saying that some people are making out that I played that hand so badly that it defied belief - I know I played it badly, I have tried to expand on the situation but if you are really that damn good you will know that every hand is not cut in black and white, right?

I am asking for help and taking that advice and using it. I am not asking for flames nor posts stroking your own e-peen because you think I do not understand odds, outs, implied odds, ev and so on. I'm not a complete beginner and I've done well in various casino games and tournaments in the UK for a long time. The major difference in Europe is the stakes (pot limit as opposed to Limit) and most of all the players - Vegas is pretty wild when you live here.

I'm not used to limit and it's hit me square between the eyes. I'm humble enough to admit that and you flame me. GG I guess. I bow down to your superior knowledge. /sigh



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I love the dramatics. You came in here looking for help and posted a hand as an example of you getting sucked out on. If you werent looking for criticism of that hand what were you looking for? Also, on these forums the best limit hold'em players in the world play hands terribly and are told as much when they post them. Sorry if telling you played a hand bad hurts your feelings. Next time we will tell you that you played it perfect and let you continue to suck.

[Yossarian147]

You asked "How do you deal with these very loose, very passive games?"

The answer is to play tight, adjust starting hands with position, and most of all value bet relentlessly with moderately strong hands. It isn't to get tricky heads up vs the typical fish at 2/4.

[banzi]

[ QUOTE ]
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So I have the book and I've read about half of it (I am a fast reader) and I'm making a cheat sheet as I go to get laminated.

I still don't think I played that hand as badly as you all make out. Yes, I lost. Yes, it cost me but it's not like I checked the damn thing to the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is obvious to respected posters in this thread that:
a. You dont understand basic gambling and poker-related concepts.

and

b. That you played the example hand poorly.

You can disagree, but people who play higher and have more experience seem to think you are wrong. If you want advice great, but it seems to me like you either want pity for your bad luck or you are already expert (miles ahead of us) and we would only hold you back.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay - flame me if you want. I can take it, because of course everyone here is a winner 100% of the time. I am being honest and saying I need help, and you flame me. Fine.

I am saying that some people are making out that I played that hand so badly that it defied belief - I know I played it badly, I have tried to expand on the situation but if you are really that damn good you will know that every hand is not cut in black and white, right?

I am asking for help and taking that advice and using it. I am not asking for flames nor posts stroking your own e-peen because you think I do not understand odds, outs, implied odds, ev and so on. I'm not a complete beginner and I've done well in various casino games and tournaments in the UK for a long time. The major difference in Europe is the stakes (pot limit as opposed to Limit) and most of all the players - Vegas is pretty wild when you live here.

I'm not used to limit and it's hit me square between the eyes. I'm humble enough to admit that and you flame me. GG I guess. I bow down to your superior knowledge. /sigh



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I love the dramatics. You came in here looking for help and posted a hand as an example of you getting sucked out on. If you werent looking for criticism of that hand what were you looking for? Also, on these forums the best limit hold'em players in the world play hands terribly and are told as much when they post them. Sorry if telling you played a hand bad hurts your feelings. Next time we will tell you that you played it perfect and let you continue to suck.

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Q.E.D - your reading comprehension is staggering. Good job.

[banzi]

Everyone's quick to say there are concepts I do not understand yet.

Care to expand on that? I want to know what I am missing out on so I can learn.

[MitchL]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So I have the book and I've read about half of it (I am a fast reader) and I'm making a cheat sheet as I go to get laminated.

I still don't think I played that hand as badly as you all make out. Yes, I lost. Yes, it cost me but it's not like I checked the damn thing to the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is obvious to respected posters in this thread that:
a. You dont understand basic gambling and poker-related concepts.

and

b. That you played the example hand poorly.

You can disagree, but people who play higher and have more experience seem to think you are wrong. If you want advice great, but it seems to me like you either want pity for your bad luck or you are already expert (miles ahead of us) and we would only hold you back.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay - flame me if you want. I can take it, because of course everyone here is a winner 100% of the time. I am being honest and saying I need help, and you flame me. Fine.

I am saying that some people are making out that I played that hand so badly that it defied belief - I know I played it badly, I have tried to expand on the situation but if you are really that damn good you will know that every hand is not cut in black and white, right?

I am asking for help and taking that advice and using it. I am not asking for flames nor posts stroking your own e-peen because you think I do not understand odds, outs, implied odds, ev and so on. I'm not a complete beginner and I've done well in various casino games and tournaments in the UK for a long time. The major difference in Europe is the stakes (pot limit as opposed to Limit) and most of all the players - Vegas is pretty wild when you live here.

I'm not used to limit and it's hit me square between the eyes. I'm humble enough to admit that and you flame me. GG I guess. I bow down to your superior knowledge. /sigh



[/ QUOTE ]

I love the dramatics. You came in here looking for help and posted a hand as an example of you getting sucked out on. If you werent looking for criticism of that hand what were you looking for? Also, on these forums the best limit hold'em players in the world play hands terribly and are told as much when they post them. Sorry if telling you played a hand bad hurts your feelings. Next time we will tell you that you played it perfect and let you continue to suck.

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Q.E.D - your reading comprehension is staggering. Good job.

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OK, what am I missing? Also, people in this thread have tried to explain some of the concepts that you are misunderstanding but you still dont seem to get them. Your biggest problem is that you seem to believe that the reason you are losing is because of your opponents bad play and are posting examples of that play to prove your point. Just read the books. You cant be helped here. You are obviously unwilling to listen.

[DeuceKicker]

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Everyone's quick to say there are concepts I do not understand yet.

Care to expand on that? I want to know what I am missing out on so I can learn.

[/ QUOTE ]In an attempt to help:
Variance
Value betting
Starting hand values
Who it is we make our money from

[KitCloudkicker]

OP,

I really dont understand why you are taking any of this stuff personally.

Although some posters (me included, I apologize) may sometimes have a patronizing tone to our posts, 99.9% of them are not intended to show off or put down other posters. We want to see people in this forum improve their games. It's easy to simply say "nice hand," "you played it great," "you just got unlucky," etc, but the fact of the matter is one never learns from mistakes if one never realizes he is making them.

Here, although you didnt play the hand as bad as a lot people would, you could have definitely picked more profitable lines on the turn and river. I suggested these lines to you such that in the future you will make more money from these situations. Thus, what's not to like? I'm not posting here to show off amazing poker knowledge or put you down. You asked for help on a hand, and I gave it to you. I'm not going to sugarcoat things for you, and neither is anyone else here (and they shouldn't). Just read the advice given here, post more hands, and learn from and accept the criticism.

Many of the hands that I post on this forum are ones that I myself feel I played questionably. I thus fully expect to get bashed on a lot of them. That is how I learn and get better at poker, and how you should too.


-Kit

[banzi]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Everyone's quick to say there are concepts I do not understand yet.

Care to expand on that? I want to know what I am missing out on so I can learn.

[/ QUOTE ]In an attempt to help:
Variance
Value betting
Starting hand values
Who it is we make our money from

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for your post. I appreciate it.

I understand variance. I know what it means and what it implies. I also know that if you flip a coin 10 times and it comes up heads every time, it's still even money it's going to be tails next time. I also understand this concept as applied to poker hands. Many people at low limits will not raise hands they should do because they "always get beat" and "why should I bother - everyone calls anyway". This is not me. I understand cards have no memory, the cosmic universe is not out to get me. There is no pattern!

I didn't deal Roulette in the UK for all those years and not take away a thing or two [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I'd like to hear your idea of value betting. I am reading SSHE right now and I'm interested in everyone's take on it.

However, I'm curious as to why you think I have no idea of starting hand values because I lost with AK vs A2o after flopping top two?

[banzi]

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OP,

I really dont understand why you are taking any of this stuff personally.

Although some posters (me included, I apologize) may sometimes have a patronizing tone to our posts, 99.9% of them are not intended to show off or put down other posters. We want to see people in this forum improve their games. It's easy to simply say "nice hand," "you played it great," "you just got unlucky," etc, but the fact of the matter is one never learns from mistakes if one never realizes he is making them.

Here, although you didnt play the hand as bad as a lot people would, you could have definitely picked more profitable lines on the turn and river. I suggested these lines to you such that in the future you will make more money from these situations. Thus, what's not to like? I'm not posting here to show off amazing poker knowledge or put you down. You asked for help on a hand, and I gave it to you. I'm not going to sugarcoat things for you, and neither is anyone else here (and they shouldn't). Just read the advice given here, post more hands, and learn from and accept the criticism.

Many of the hands that I post on this forum are ones that I myself feel I played questionably. I thus fully expect to get bashed on a lot of them. That is how I learn and get better at poker, and how you should too.


-Kit

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And I appreciate your posts. What I don't like is the guy from MN (who is now on ignore so flame me all you want buddy - I will never see a word of it) who didn't even try to offer some advice. All he had was a bashing first post to inflate his own ego and to basically look down on a first-time poster.

I am all about asking for help and taking the advice I'm given or I wouldn't have posted. I will not end up like the local players I see when I play who constantly lament about their terrible luck and horrible lives, and look like they're playing their last $40. I'm here to win, and that's all there is to it.