CP: Impact of card room going into Forest Lake????

[vhawk01]

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I've never actually played SL in a casino. I would expect there would be extra dollars to be made from people who don't adjust to the spread. Still, I'd rather play straight limit poker.

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If you make the correct analogy between games, say maybe compare 5-60 spread to 15/30 (I'm not sure this is correct, but just imagine 'whatever the correct analogy is') the spread limit games are almost certainly going to be more profitable. Its just one more aspect of the game where fish can make mistakes, and they tend to be very large mistakes, compared to the ones they make in fixed limit games. I agree, fundamentally spread limit games are silly and dumb but they are very profitable. They just don't play as big as you'd think.

[Vehn]

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I'm not saying that these games are bad. All I'm saying is that if you flop big hands, hit your big draws, and have your big pairs hold up you will have a great night, but if you miss big draws and get big pairs cracked constantly you will have a bad, frustrating night because from what I have seen you can't really bluff or make moves much in these Uber loose games you simply have to have the best hand at showdown most of the time.

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this is pretty much correct but what you aren't getting is the skill involved in limit holdem which is primarily about making good value bets and catching bluffs and hand reading and making thin laydowns and putting people on hand ranges and bluffing with your missed draw when you think someone else has a better draw that would win at showdown and bluff raising rivers when you're against a tag who you know is capable of bet/folding. If you don't like that stuff don't play limit.

[PorkchopDJG]

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I'm not saying that these games are bad. All I'm saying is that if you flop big hands, hit your big draws, and have your big pairs hold up you will have a great night, but if you miss big draws and get big pairs cracked constantly you will have a bad, frustrating night because from what I have seen you can't really bluff or make moves much in these Uber loose games you simply have to have the best hand at showdown most of the time.

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this is pretty much correct but what you aren't getting is the skill involved in limit holdem which is primarily about making good value bets and catching bluffs and hand reading and making thin laydowns and putting people on hand ranges and bluffing with your missed draw when you think someone else has a better draw that would win at showdown and bluff raising rivers when you're against a tag who you know is capable of bet/folding. If you don't like that stuff don't play limit.

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This is an excellent post and I agree that all of these skills are very important when playing limit hold em. The problem is that when you play at Callerbury you don't get to use a lot of these skills because you are always working with the assumption that 2 to 3 are going to call no matter what you do.

1)Value bets are the key. You basically keep betting when you think you have the best hand because they will chase. Then even when you aren't sure you have the best hand or a scare card comes you can still call most the time because some of these guys are betting with bottom pair or will represent whatever came. I have folded top pair at Canterbury many times only to cringe when I see the showdown. Then I remind myself where I am and don't make that mistake again.

1) Bluffing on the river - This would only work in very rare cases. Who really at Callerbury is going to fold for one bet on the river in a big pot with anything. Anyone who has read SSHE knows this one.

[Vehn]

true most of what I said only applies in the 15 or 30 game. honestly though I just get tired of people saying limit sucks, for the most part I enjoy limit much more than no limit (and I play both).

[BigBuffet]

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NL is a death blow. Sure, the games would be phenomenal for a few months, but then the fish lose it all and go away.

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Disagree. St. Croix and the Iowa casinos have shown that the fish "don't lose it all and go away" in NL cash games. in the midwest. If it can work in the boonies it can work in the Twin Cities.

Just because CP doesn't want it doesn't mean it won't work for the players.

[Holm Fries]

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I welcome the competition and have enjoyed playing in the other rooms MN and Western Wisconsin have to offer. I also think as players mature and learn more about the game they want more of a challege than the no fold em variety of poker that Callerbury provides.

I know you want to play against loose players who call with hopeless hands but the last few times I have played 6/12 and 8/16 at Callerbury the cold calling and calling down with hopeless hands has reached new extremes. Even if you start with or flop a good hand you have to outlast all the chasers. So you basically wait to flop good hands/draws and hope they outlast the chasers. No bluffing, no raising to protect your hand(they call 2 and 3 bets cold), just hit a good hand and hope it survives at showdown.

You can have good nights playing this way but you can also have incredibly bad, frustrating nights when you miss big draws, get your big pairs cracked repeatedly and such.
I have found I like the moves and excitement of spread limit and no limit more because you can actually make moves, bluff and if people want to call with bad hands and draws they will risk a large portion of their stack to do so.

So I hope the new place has spread limit and I wish we could get real no limit in this state.

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The 8/16 is full of cold-callers, but you are incorrect in saying that you can't make moves or bluff. Yes, the variance in that game is high, but with the proper adjustments the game is pure money.

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I have played many of the mid-stakes games in LV and LA and the 9/18 at Commerce is about the only game that can compare to the CP 8/16. It is like printing money.

[whiskeytown]

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I'm not saying that these games are bad. All I'm saying is that if you flop big hands, hit your big draws, and have your big pairs hold up you will have a great night, but if you miss big draws and get big pairs cracked constantly you will have a bad, frustrating night because from what I have seen you can't really bluff or make moves much in these Uber loose games you simply have to have the best hand at showdown most of the time.

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this is pretty much correct but what you aren't getting is the skill involved in limit holdem which is primarily about making good value bets and catching bluffs and hand reading and making thin laydowns and putting people on hand ranges and bluffing with your missed draw when you think someone else has a better draw that would win at showdown and bluff raising rivers when you're against a tag who you know is capable of bet/folding. If you don't like that stuff don't play limit.

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This is an excellent post and I agree that all of these skills are very important when playing limit hold em. The problem is that when you play at Callerbury you don't get to use a lot of these skills because you are always working with the assumption that 2 to 3 are going to call no matter what you do.

1)Value bets are the key. You basically keep betting when you think you have the best hand because they will chase. Then even when you aren't sure you have the best hand or a scare card comes you can still call most the time because some of these guys are betting with bottom pair or will represent whatever came. I have folded top pair at Canterbury many times only to cringe when I see the showdown. Then I remind myself where I am and don't make that mistake again.

1) Bluffing on the river - This would only work in very rare cases. Who really at Callerbury is going to fold for one bet on the river in a big pot with anything. Anyone who has read SSHE knows this one.

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I was at Canterbury last Tues overnight and stated the $3/6 game at Canterbury is like the 0.02/0.04 cent games on Pokerstars but without the free booze [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

you both are correct, of course, but Vehn probably sees a few better players at the limits he plays then I see - but probably not many.

rb

[ravenfan1733]

The Running Aces Harness Park and Card Club should complete construction in the spring of 2008. Unless the law is changed before then, they will be required to hold a 50-day racing card prior to opening their card room. This racing schedule will be approved by the Minnesota Racing Commission in December.

As a result, I do not think the card room will actually open until mid to late summer 2008.

While I am not an expert on Minnesota games, I do not expect this card club to affect Canterbury in the least - the two clubs will be located about 50 miles apart and there is plenty of population to keep both clubs "happy".

I do have some influence in the new card club's operation and would welcome any suggestions to make your poker experience the best it can be. PM me.

[MitchL]

The best 2 things the new card club could do to compete would be to offer the rake that Cbury used to have as well as offer a 10/20 and 20/40 game.

[One Outer]

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The best 2 things the new card club could do to compete would be to offer the rake that Cbury used to have as well as offer a 10/20 and 20/40 game.

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Amen. I would happily forfeit the MVP program for the old rake.

Is this actually going to be in Forest Lake?