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  #51  
Old 10-15-2007, 09:05 PM
chucksim chucksim is offline
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Default Re: AC nosedive accelerating

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Something I've always wondered was if a state allowed slots but not poker, and slots included "video poker," then might that allow the Poker Tek computerized poker tables?

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It depends how the law is written in each state. I assume they can't legally in Pennsylvania, or otherwise they would. On the other hand, Harrah's Cherokee in NC has computerized blackjack tables, because the state compact allows computerized games but not card games. I believe Delaware Park has electronic poker and blackjack, even though regular table games are illegal in Delaware.

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Poker is a no-no in PA. It's not legal to offer a game where any one player has an impact on another's odds. Obviously, poker is the classic example.

That said, PA does offer video blackjack (the ShuffleMaster 6 player "tables"), but the games have been modified by the manufacturer so each player plays out of his own 6 deck shoe.
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  #52  
Old 10-15-2007, 11:16 PM
pocketpared pocketpared is offline
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Default Re: AC nosedive accelerating

A friend who lives in Pa. said they've been trying to get poker in Pa. slot parlors for a while. Seems like the governor (I believe he said) is against it. Poker is close in Pa. but they just need to clear the last hurdle.

Actually, it looks like poker is coming to Pa. eventually..

Friday, December 01, 2006
Rendell wants to be sure that state gambling expansion is a safe bet

The governor of Pennsylvania, Ed Rendell dampened hopes of a legalization of poker in the state anytime soon when he reacted sharply to reports that a member of the state legislature was framing such a Bill.

The governor says that he would reject any legislation seeking to legalize table games before the state has a chance to gauge the success and impact of slot machines, according to an Associated Press report.

"We have to make sure that over time, the expansion of gaming is successful, it works well, and whatever negative sides there are to it, that we control them," Rendell told reporters at an unrelated event in the Capitol.
http://www.casinoportalen.com/news/n...&curpage=1
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  #53  
Old 10-16-2007, 12:48 AM
Dima2000123 Dima2000123 is offline
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Default Re: AC nosedive accelerating

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While you can torture numbers to admit anything you want, these numbers don't lie.
January 2007 drop 2.9% over January 2006
February 2007 drop 4.8% over February 2006
March 2007 increase 1.3% over March 2006
April 2007 drop 9.9% over April 2006
May 2007 drop 5.5% over May 2006
June 2007 drop 1.9% over June 2006
July 2007 drop 2.3% over July 2006
August 2007 drop 5.9% over August 2006
September 2007 drop 10.6% over September 2006
http://www.state.nj.us/casinos/finan...atisitics.html

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Torturing numbers to admit what you want is exactly what you're doing here. You're right, these numbers don't lie, they mislead (a greater sin than lying, IMO).

You're presenting those numbers as proof that revenues keep declining on and on, when in fact the most you can say for sure is that they reflect a single shift. Do you realize that if some one-time event causes a permanent reduction of revenue by say 5%, you will have 12 month-to-month decreases of 5% (give or take) in a row? Do you realize that one-time shift does not in fact constitute "acceleration" of anything?

Nothing that you have posted so far convinces me that you have even an iota of clue about the subject you're preaching. Any fool can collect a bunch of numbers. Correctly interpreting them is a different story, and those that can do that get paid a lot of money.
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  #54  
Old 10-16-2007, 01:24 AM
pocketpared pocketpared is offline
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Default Re: AC nosedive accelerating

And you believe this decline happening at the same time competition in nearby states opens is a coincidence? And that more competition will increase AC revenues? Okay.
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  #55  
Old 10-16-2007, 02:11 AM
redfisher redfisher is offline
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Default Re: AC nosedive accelerating

Why does anybody think that a decrease in gambling revenue in AC is anything but a huge plus to poker players? There will be games. They may be a little tougher, but you should beat them. Given that poker players are the bottom of the comp bucket as far as casinos are concerned, you should be happy when the slot monkeys stay home. Fewer slot players means that poker players are more valued. General room rates, poker rates and other comps only get better when the overall casino business gets worse.
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  #56  
Old 10-16-2007, 02:13 AM
Mandor_TFL Mandor_TFL is offline
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Default Re: AC nosedive accelerating

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And you believe this decline happening at the same time competition in nearby states opens is a coincidence? And that more competition will increase AC revenues? Okay.


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That is precisely his point. Your tone of messages make it sound as if AC is going into a nosedive. Yet it is precisely because of PA Gaming that this is occurring. If it continues for 3-4 years then you have a point. ( as many PA casinos are not yet open ) AC had I believe at least 5 positive years of revenue before this year when PA slots opened up. And the PA slots are exceeding revenue expectation so far. Yet the decline in AC revenue I think is rather small considering the increased competition. Most of the casinos that have done renovation's have done well. The exception being the Tropicana whose renovation I like yet it appears not to be helping.


AC is currently undergoing revenue difficulty because of increased competition. It shows no signs of a trend which would lead to all the casino's closing. After the opening of Pinnacle and the rest of the PA casinos though, I would assume 1 or 2 of the small operators will have to close.
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  #57  
Old 10-16-2007, 02:14 AM
pocketpared pocketpared is offline
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Default Re: AC nosedive accelerating

I have mixed emotions whether it's a boon or not. AC is notorious for cutting comps and devoting floor space to the more profitable forms of gambling.

And, btw, the competition is increasing. It hasn't leveled off. Poconos will have poker soon enough and other table games.
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  #58  
Old 10-16-2007, 03:13 AM
Gonso Gonso is offline
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Default Re: AC nosedive accelerating

Pocketpared,

I've read your commetns throughout this thread and your commentary is based on only small pieces of information, which you're putting together how you want to.

If you knew anything about this industry or our market, you'd know that AC casinos do very well. The fact that there is new competetion will of course affect revenue, however there is a LOT of revenue we're talking about. Keep in mind that there has been very little competition in the local market - it's not as if they're just getting by.

Anyway, as I mentioned earlier, the customer base is shifting. The Borgata is attracting a new and more profitable customer base and other's have taken note are are changing/building/closing accordingly. The city is as well. I have never seen a revitalization effort like the one going on now.

Over the next five years more investment capital will be spent in AC then ever before - and by a LOT. Think about it: Borgata cost a little over a billion. Little ass Hilton's renonvation could cost 1.5 billion. Pinnacle more than that, and a themed MGM casino... 5 billion? There won't be anything like it. And expansions are happening now as well.

A 5% percent dropoff year to year is nothing to panic over, the casino industry here is pretty robust. Places like the Sands only lasted as long as they did because there was no competition.

A little competition is exactly what AC needed. How do you think places like Resorts and Trump Plaza have made money for so long? There were no real alternatives. Now that there is some competition you talk as if there won't be enough left to support the AC industry. That's not even close to accurate.
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  #59  
Old 10-16-2007, 10:13 AM
chucksim chucksim is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 683
Default Re: AC nosedive accelerating

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A friend who lives in Pa. said they've been trying to get poker in Pa. slot parlors for a while.

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Define "a while". PA Slot parlors haven't even been open a year, and it took years for that to happen. Sure it's been talked about, but so have a lot of other things that will not happen in the near term.

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Seems like the governor (I believe he said) is against it. Poker is close in Pa. but they just need to clear the last hurdle.

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Define "close" and "the last hurdle". It's not that he's against it, but Rendell has said (you quoted here) that he will take time to assess the impact of the slots first, and that will only happen after every parlor is open. Those openings are years down the road.

Anyone with any knowledge of the PA situation will tell you it'll be at least 2010 before there's an expanded gaming climate here. Yes, some in the House are starting the push, but believe me, 2010 is the earliest you'll see anything open. Even the governor (of whom I am no fan, BTW) has said you won't see it before the end of his term.

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Actually, it looks like poker is coming to Pa. eventually..

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About the only semi-accurate thing you've said here. Yes, eventually. It will come when the state opens the full blown casinos, which most feel are inevitable.

My guess is that it will probably happen around 2012 or 2015.
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  #60  
Old 10-16-2007, 11:41 AM
TMTTR TMTTR is offline
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Default Re: AC nosedive accelerating

Majority of the loss is in the slots, not in table games (including poker). In fact, year-to-date table revenue is up. Drop in slots probably has something to do with the proliferation of slot machines at race tracks and other locations in neighboring states. I know they added them at Yonkers Raceway in NY in the last year -- I remember hearing something similar about Pennsylvania.
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