$2 min. rake at Seminole Hard Rock - Hollywood

[dukenukem]

Yeah...Just called Hollywood and this was confirmed by "Al." However, "Linda" in Tampa "double checked" and says this is not the case there. Al did say that, in Hollywood, "as soon is there is a bet" the rake is $2. Ouch. He said the rule does not apply to limit, only no limit. And yes, by law, in Florida, the max buy-in is $100 at any nl table. Hard Rock enforces this even at the limit tables!

[bigslickmark]

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BTW how is the level of play in those two? In which one the player´s suck the most?

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I usually play at Gulfstream Park. It plays very much like a home game. Mostly regulars play there and the staff is nice. It's not too tough if you are patient.

Hard Rock Hollywood is much different. Everytime I've played there are a few tourists and really bad calling stations at the table. However, there are also really tough, aggressive players as well. Therefore it's a very tricky game because the TAG players limp in every hand to take advantage of the fish and sometimes, if you are out of position against these players it can be expensive to see a hand. Also, you have to mentally prepare for the suckouts from the calling stations that do occur. If you don't like high variance in your poker game I would stay away from the Hard Rock Hollywood.

I also don't like that Hollywood HR nickles and dimes the players. The $2 minimum rake results in an extra $10 to $20 to the house every hour. Also they charge $2 for bottled water and you pay the waitress up front. She usually returns 20 minutes later with the water.

[Rick Nebiolo]

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Get ready... the poker industry is fed-up with NL becase the drops are too small so they are finding ways to assure a steady income on every down.

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A major problem is hands per hour compared to limit. When even the smallest decision often puts players "into the tank" as if they are "on TV" it's not only the other players that roll their eyes, it's cardroom owners and managers.


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Harrah's method was to increase the minimum in many of their rooms to $5 + $1 jackpot. Other rooms are converting small stakes NL games to time drops instead of rake. Sounds like Seminole is using California as a model to be coppied.

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If the bolded is true they are making a mistake. My arguments on this forum regarding drops rarely address the size of the drop on a healthy pot (clubs/casinos have a right to maximize profit); rather I object to (and would like to find a way around if I get back in the business) the way it is taken.

Huge relative drops aren't good for the cardrooms either if they chose to see clearly; California's full drop on close to nothing pots will become more and more of a game breaker and "costumer chase awayer" (misspell intentional) as the games get inevitably tighter.


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Within the next 4 years I project that NL pots everywhere (when legally allowed) will be smaller because of increased rake and/or time charges.

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I agree they will get smaller but mostly for different reasons.

For any given blind size the pots will tend to get smaller because the player base will become tighter/tougher for many of the reasons online became tighter/tougher i.e., the existing base of players eventually gets better and the influx of weak players aka fish slowed down while the influx of friends of good young players who join the shark pool increases.

It's debatable if the increased drop/rake will make pots smaller too (other than analyzed in isolation). When a game continuously has huge rakes and/or drops on small pots it's the tighter regulars that get discouraged first. So for a while the large increase in drop probably "nit proofs" the games. But without a base of tighter regular players games will be much harder to start and break much more easily (with the reduction in loose players). Floor staff will be tied up far more often with table changes requested by regulars chasing the few remaining weaker players.

It's really a grim scenario and only those who can move up (where the rake/drop is relatively smaller) have any chance. And ultimately with very few winners the business slows down as it is the winning players who, to an extent, inspire those who play semi-seriously yet mostly lose. These semi-serious losing players think they could win someday if they just played a little better like the "guy in the other seat". Take away most of the "guys in the other seat" and poker develops the "almost everybody loses" reputation of slots without the ease of entry for the casual gambler.

~ Rick

[GittyUP]

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BTW how is the level of play in those two? In which one the player´s suck the most?

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I usually play at Gulfstream Park. It plays very much like a home game. Mostly regulars play there and the staff is nice. It's not too tough if you are patient.

Hard Rock Hollywood is much different. Everytime I've played there are a few tourists and really bad calling stations at the table. However, there are also really tough, aggressive players as well. Therefore it's a very tricky game because the TAG players limp in every hand to take advantage of the fish and sometimes, if you are out of position against these players it can be expensive to see a hand. Also, you have to mentally prepare for the suckouts from the calling stations that do occur. If you don't like high variance in your poker game I would stay away from the Hard Rock Hollywood.



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I agree seminole hardrock has alot of mega fish/tourists but they in no way have aggressive/tricky players. What you are referring by players who limp with strong hands are weak/tight players who have no idea how bet sizing/pot control and various other basic NL skills. I routinely see players limping with AA and KK thinking they are being tricky only to have someone out flop them. Or worse check or call to river only to lead out with 1.5 times the pot. (LOL) I'd say there is on average less then one tricky aggressive player at the table. 3 tourist/fish and 4-5 weak tight players. (unless I'm there of course)

[Miamipuck]

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BTW how is the level of play in those two? In which one the player´s suck the most?

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I usually play at Gulfstream Park. It plays very much like a home game. Mostly regulars play there and the staff is nice. It's not too tough if you are patient.

Hard Rock Hollywood is much different. Everytime I've played there are a few tourists and really bad calling stations at the table. However, there are also really tough, aggressive players as well. Therefore it's a very tricky game because the TAG players limp in every hand to take advantage of the fish and sometimes, if you are out of position against these players it can be expensive to see a hand. Also, you have to mentally prepare for the suckouts from the calling stations that do occur. If you don't like high variance in your poker game I would stay away from the Hard Rock Hollywood.



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I agree seminole hardrock has alot of mega fish/tourists but they in no way have aggressive/tricky players. What you are referring by players who limp with strong hands are weak/tight players who have no idea how bet sizing/pot control and various other basic NL skills. I routinely see players limping with AA and KK thinking they are being tricky only to have someone out flop them. Or worse check or call to river only to lead out with 1.5 times the pot. (LOL) I'd say there is on average less then one tricky aggressive player at the table. 3 tourist/fish and 4-5 weak tight players. (unless I'm there of course)

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I think you missed his point a little bit. On some tables the tricky players can play more hands because of the passive play. I think that is what he meant.

Some tables I play there is almost no limping. However you are correct that there are some regulars that I speak with that ask," why do you raise so and so hand?" Typically it is AK/AQ 88-QQ. I think on many tables the general rule of thumb is 3-4 tourists and 2-3 TAG's and 2-3 weak tight fish. There are some very good players there. Then again I am there every day so I know who to avoid and who not too.


FWIW that rake rule is completely dealer dependent. Some dealers will automatically take the 2 buck and some do not. There are more than a few dealers that will not take the 2 bucks if say there are 5 limpers and soemone raises to 20 bucks and they all fold.

[Papi Shasho]

Mark, do you happen to play a lot of $60 sit-n-gos at the Gulfstream?

[bigslickmark]

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Mark, do you happen to play a lot of $60 sit-n-gos at the Gulfstream?

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I've played only a few SNG since the new poker rules went into effect. I love playing the SNG's however I play in the daytime and there is never a list anymore at Gulfstream. I now prefer 1/2 NL and find it to be quite profitable. I usually play at Gulfstream 5 days a week between 2 and 5 pm. Do you play there?

[Papi Shasho]

Yeah I play once in a while but only sit n goes...I know a Mark who plays a lot sit n goes there, I think he has something wrong with one of his legs or something, but I've never seen him playing cash, so it's probably not you.

[bigslickmark]

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BTW how is the level of play in those two? In which one the player´s suck the most?

[/ QUOTE ]

I usually play at Gulfstream Park. It plays very much like a home game. Mostly regulars play there and the staff is nice. It's not too tough if you are patient.

Hard Rock Hollywood is much different. Everytime I've played there are a few tourists and really bad calling stations at the table. However, there are also really tough, aggressive players as well. Therefore it's a very tricky game because the TAG players limp in every hand to take advantage of the fish and sometimes, if you are out of position against these players it can be expensive to see a hand. Also, you have to mentally prepare for the suckouts from the calling stations that do occur. If you don't like high variance in your poker game I would stay away from the Hard Rock Hollywood.



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I agree seminole hardrock has alot of mega fish/tourists but they in no way have aggressive/tricky players. What you are referring by players who limp with strong hands are weak/tight players who have no idea how bet sizing/pot control and various other basic NL skills. I routinely see players limping with AA and KK thinking they are being tricky only to have someone out flop them. Or worse check or call to river only to lead out with 1.5 times the pot. (LOL) I'd say there is on average less then one tricky aggressive player at the table. 3 tourist/fish and 4-5 weak tight players. (unless I'm there of course)

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I think you missed his point a little bit. On some tables the tricky players can play more hands because of the passive play. I think that is what he meant.

Some tables I play there is almost no limping. However you are correct that there are some regulars that I speak with that ask," why do you raise so and so hand?" Typically it is AK/AQ 88-QQ. I think on many tables the general rule of thumb is 3-4 tourists and 2-3 TAG's and 2-3 weak tight fish. There are some very good players there. Then again I am there every day so I know who to avoid and who not too.


FWIW that rake rule is completely dealer dependent. Some dealers will automatically take the 2 buck and some do not. There are more than a few dealers that will not take the 2 bucks if say there are 5 limpers and soemone raises to 20 bucks and they all fold.

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Your exactly right on what I was thinking. I've only played there a few times since July 1st but it's always been the same. There are always 3 to 5 tourists/ fish and 2 or 3 TAG that drive the action. The remaining players are tight rocks. You find 5 to 7 players in a hand pre-flop and there is almost always a showdown at the end. There is no element of bluff and there are suck outs galore. After you factor in the poor rake structure, the drunk crowds, the smoking, the trashy element, long waits and the crappy dealers it makes for a lousy poker experience. This is why I prefer Gulfstream Park.

[Papi Shasho]

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BTW how is the level of play in those two? In which one the player´s suck the most?

[/ QUOTE ]

I usually play at Gulfstream Park. It plays very much like a home game. Mostly regulars play there and the staff is nice. It's not too tough if you are patient.

Hard Rock Hollywood is much different. Everytime I've played there are a few tourists and really bad calling stations at the table. However, there are also really tough, aggressive players as well. Therefore it's a very tricky game because the TAG players limp in every hand to take advantage of the fish and sometimes, if you are out of position against these players it can be expensive to see a hand. Also, you have to mentally prepare for the suckouts from the calling stations that do occur. If you don't like high variance in your poker game I would stay away from the Hard Rock Hollywood.



[/ QUOTE ]

I agree seminole hardrock has alot of mega fish/tourists but they in no way have aggressive/tricky players. What you are referring by players who limp with strong hands are weak/tight players who have no idea how bet sizing/pot control and various other basic NL skills. I routinely see players limping with AA and KK thinking they are being tricky only to have someone out flop them. Or worse check or call to river only to lead out with 1.5 times the pot. (LOL) I'd say there is on average less then one tricky aggressive player at the table. 3 tourist/fish and 4-5 weak tight players. (unless I'm there of course)

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you missed his point a little bit. On some tables the tricky players can play more hands because of the passive play. I think that is what he meant.

Some tables I play there is almost no limping. However you are correct that there are some regulars that I speak with that ask," why do you raise so and so hand?" Typically it is AK/AQ 88-QQ. I think on many tables the general rule of thumb is 3-4 tourists and 2-3 TAG's and 2-3 weak tight fish. There are some very good players there. Then again I am there every day so I know who to avoid and who not too.


FWIW that rake rule is completely dealer dependent. Some dealers will automatically take the 2 buck and some do not. There are more than a few dealers that will not take the 2 bucks if say there are 5 limpers and soemone raises to 20 bucks and they all fold.

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Tell me about it. I pick up KK in LP, raise to $7, and button just smooth calls (?) with AA and like 4 other people come in. We both flop sets, flush draw on board, I'm betting into him strong and he's just calling me down?

I'll never understand the way he played that...needless to say all the money went in thanks to me, but I'm sure he felt like a genius.